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IHMO, first do your homework. Start by asking people with knowledge, for example: Moyer Marine (717-564-5748, http://www.moyermarine.com/); Atomic Four Engine Service (604-868-6646,http://www3.telus.net/Atomic_4_Eng_Service/); or Old Lyme Marina (860-434-3068, http://www.oldlymemarina.com/) They all have Web sites.
And then post questions at those A-4 on-line discussion groups (www.sailnet.com/ under "community/email," and on AOL under keyword "sailing") provide A4 owners with a wealth of information about parts and maintenance.
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I removed the A4 from my Triton and, after a bad experience with a supposedly rebuilt Yanmar SB12, repowered with a spanking new Yanmar 2GM20F last year. This advice is based on my experience, and represents my opinions.
Here are three questions that I think you should ask yourself before heading down any repower road, in order:
1. Do you want an inboard engine, or would the outboard be fine for you if you were more comfortable with its installation? If so, look into beefing up the transom if you're worried, or look into building an outboard well.
2. Do you have existing foundation, tankage, and shafting from your old Atomic 4? If so, it may make sense to stick with the engine that will be a perfect match to your existing hardware--the A4. Going to diesel brings up tankage issues, fuel system, and prop/shafting issues. But if you don't want an A4, this point is moot anyway.
3. Or do you really just want a reliable diesel, regardless of the expense and complications? If so, then get it. It's a big job, but the end result can be nice.
If you ask a bunch of A4 people about engines, they'll recommend the A4 as the way to go. If you ask a bunch of diesel people about engines, they'll recommend the diesel as the way to go. And if you ask a bunch of outboard people about engines, they'll recommend an outboard as the way to go. The only thing that will work for you is what works for you. (Thanks, Yogi...)
The used diesel route should be approached with GREAT CARE and hesitation. New diesels are smoother, quieter, and efficient. They are smoke-free and, with some soundproofing in the engine room, nearly as quiet as an A4. Old diesels are smoky, noisy, full of vibration...in short, you'd be better off with a rebuilt A4 than some old rebuilt diesel. In my opinion, with a diesel--go new or go gas. (Been there, done that...)
So, keeping that in mind, here are some of the things you may have to deal with if you convert to an inboard engine, depending on whether or not you have remains of the old engine installation:
1. You may need to design and build new engine foundations. If you have the old A4 beds, then repowering with an A4 could make sense--but then so could using one of the diesel so-called "drop in replacements" for the A4 (all this means is that the mounting centers are roughly equivalent to the narrow mounts on the A4...nothing more.) Older diesels will probably have clearance and mounting issues, and the new Yanmar diesels are also not directly compatible with A4 mounting centers. This is not insurmountable, but is something to knoe up front.
2. What about your tankage and shafting? Do you have any existing stuff, or are you starting from scratch? If you have to install a new fuel system, shaft, prop, etc., the argument for sticking with your first choice--diesel--makes more sense.
3. Is the bottom line the most important thing, or are you willing to spend what it takes to do ANY engine installation correctly? Would a new diesel make you happier with your boat? If so, then cost should not be the issue. There's little question that the cost of a new diesel exceeds the cost of any other repower route you might take. But if you're prepared for the cost, then it becomes a non-issue.
4. A Yanmar 2GM20F, which will not fit directly on the old A4 beds (if you have them) is a good engine (18HP), but will cost you about $6300 plus installation, shafting, tankage, etc. If you have to pay someone to do all this work, you could be looking at 10K. Materials alone to complete the job, if you do it all with free labor, will still amount to a total investment of 7K or so. Repowering is labor-intensive. Do it yourself and save a bundle. I have not heard great things about the 1GM10, and forget about raw water cooling--not an option. Go fresh, period.
If it's worth this much to you to have the diesel, then by all means go for it. Forget about getting your money out later, or resale, or any of that stuff...it is not a factor in your decision as to what engine situation makes you the happiest and most comfortable. If you're not selling the boat in the foreseeable future, who cares if you won't get your money out? This decision is strictly about what makes the boat the best it can be for YOU, at this exact point in time.
The point of all this is that there's no reaon not to install a diesel if it's what you want. There are also no insurmountable installation issues that I'm aware of, although you may need to modify some cabinetry for the diesel to fit (most diesels are taller than the A4, which can cause some issues).
I won't tell you to go with a diesel, or an A4, or whatever. Like I said, that's a decision only you can make. But I thought some of these issues might be of assistance as you think about what to do.
Tim
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Hey Tim,
One of the used Yanmars I got for $2000 was a 2GM and did not smoke or use a drop of oil . All it needed was a panel and alternator ( owner kept both ).
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Mike,
Well, I certainly didn't mean to imply that ALL used or rebuilt diesels are bad...just that anyone considering one should be very careful in their selection and make sure it is all it is cracked up to be.
Sometimes you get lucky with an old one.
Mine sucked.
Tim
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Thanks for all your opinions on the subject, gave me food for thought. Now I'm full and need a nap!!!
:)
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Janice, I predict that a few years from now you're still going to be using the outboard and dreaming of a diesel.
The Yamaha has given you years of faithful service. The transom of the boat will not fall off.
Most of us with an outboard well leave the engine in the water all the time. My ten year old Yamaha is very happy that way and shows almost no corrosion.
I use the clear spray anti-fouling paint. Probably the nastiest, most evil chemicals I've ever used (and costs $ 25 a can). Be very careful if you use this stuff.
After a few months, the lower part of the engine gets a little furry. No big deal. Brush it off.
To tilt the engine, try wrapping a line under and around the back of the powerhead. Give the line a pull. The engine is probably stiff and needs to be worked. If necessary, winch the line a little. But, go easy. If the cover pops off and falls in the water....well....its not my fault (just kidding, the pull handle would prevent that).
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Peter, For now, I'm going to try your idea of just keeping the outboard in the water in the highest position. I can see my honey shaking his head at the idea of it dragging in the water while I'm sailing, but ......
I had ordered an outboard motor tilter, It arrived but was way too long for the outboard. It advertised as "adjustable"....it is but I have to cut it down and drill the holes.
l'll spray the shaft first with the anti foul paint and see ..anything is better than my present situation. Though the marine growth is pretty scarey down here........ two weeks after I cleaned the bottom and there was enough growth that a baby lobster made it it's home. When I scraped it off, it tried to make me it's home.
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Was told tonight that a 3 cylinder Yanmar will be up fior sale for $1500. With installation.. . around $3000.
Could this be a suitable choice?
Just when I stopped thinking aboiut this whole to do......
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That is a lot more motor than you need, is it the 3GM Yanmar , the 2 is a better fit. The 3 can push a 35' boat with ease . The price is good even with the install included . Does that price include fuel tank and a good Racor filter/separator ? How about the prop & shaft?
Make sure that is a 'turn key ' deal ! The little stuff can add up fast to another $500 .
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Is the 3 cyl. a lot bigger than a 2? Why did you ask if it was a 3GM?
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The 'Gm' series all use the same size pistons and heads , like stacking oatmeal boxes alongside each other in a row , so it will be bigger by the diameter of the cylinder housing or head .
If you knew which it was , I could get weights and dimensions which could be compared against the 2 and the Atomic 4 . It could negate the sink & step if it is much longer . I have a marina neighbor that has one in his 35' , so I can actually put hands on ( I have already worked on his before ) .
It is a very good motor , but could be swatting a fly with a sledge hammer , not good , especially if its sitting on your gelcoat .
Mike G
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If it needs to negate the sink and step, I don't want it. If it can't comfortably fit in the the boat, I don't want it . I could find out more info. In fact, it is being salvaged from a boat I know somewhat. It is on old wooden Tahitian Ketch, one Tom and I were considering buying a long time ago. I know the previous owner who put it in...he has moved to Germany and left the boat for years rotting . He had plans of sailing her back to Germany, that's why he put this engine in.
In the meantime, I'm heading out to Wayward Star.... going to saw that Motor Tilter down to size, and NOW, the pull cord on the ob won't budge.....Two times in one week!!!!
Never sawed a piece of metal in my liife. I hope it goes better than my recent epoxy repair...........:cool: