It's like that old Buck Owens song, "there won't be nothing left when she gets through with me." This is before Tony's file....
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It's like that old Buck Owens song, "there won't be nothing left when she gets through with me." This is before Tony's file....
This is the 'underbelly' of the outhaul piece. The upper mainsheet block will ride on a stainless bail that will be bolted through the boom and outhaul assembly with a corresponding compression tube (or whatever it's really called).
In honor of Frank Lloyd Wright I busted through the snow drifts and ice into my shop tonight after work. It has it's own type of 'organic architecture' after a long winter's nap...it smells like a cat turd!!! Mr. Wright, surely, would not approve.
Because of these new fittings, the overall boom length had grown. So I decided to cut some off each end to get rid of the old screw holes and what not. A fine opportunity to start anew...
'not so much off of this end though.
I'm willing to swap this action photo for another action photo from any other member. I'd prefer something from a recent sail or sailing experience.
From the tack to the aft end of the boom, not including the outhaul assembly, still works out to be 11'-11 3/8". At first I was worried about shortening the boom too much, but, it seems to be just fine (at this point).
Tony, Thanks for this photo series on the boom refit!!
Ah-Ha! We got a bite. It's still cold in the shop up here in the hinterland. Sure would appreciate some California sunshine to get summer started...I was able to suffer through making some VHMW bushings for the goosneck fittings yesterday.
Now I'm trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to fit a 4:1 or 6:1 block system inside the boom for the outhaul. Oh yeah, I don't want it to be clanking around in there either(rubber padded blocks). I'd like to keep it inside the boom in order to save the outside surface for the reefing system. Of course, it could go between the goosneck and the mast step on the aftside of the mast but that area is already going to be pretty crowded.
If I can figure this one out then maybe we'll tackle the foil spreaders :cool: I'd like to paint the spars early this year in hope of getting my @#!whooping out of the way, right away, so then I'll have all summer to fix them :D
Any thoughts?
The rigger who installed a four-to-one outhaul inside the boom on #76, built it in an aluminum tube and slid it into the boom. I believe the tube was split to give access for installing the blocks and line and was then folded closed as it went into the boom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony G
Bill,
That's waaay better than what I was thinking. You guys on the coast(s) get all of the good stuff.
I have a couple of questions about 76's set up. Do you find the 4:1 purchase is enough to comfortably/easily adjust the outhaul? Is the fixed block in the system attached to the inner tube mechanically or is there a line attached to it that exits the boom and is tied off somewhere to 'fix' the block's location. Or, is it attached in some manner that my wee-little, land locked mind hasn't even thought of yet? Did the tube add much weight to the boom?
I realize some of these questions may require a trip to your boat to answere. And, of course, if at all possible take some pictures. :D
These days, I find the 4 to 1 advantage to be marginal when sailing to wind. May be due to my "maturity," but it (and a future jib halyard) is the reason for the port side cabin top winch. It may also no longer be 4 to 1 as there were two owners between selling the boat in 1988 and repurchasing it in 1997.
As for how it's done, sorry, but I don't have a clue. Had it installed by a local rigger who specialized in such things. I'm pretty sure the inner tube and hardware are mechanically fixed. As for weight, the tube material is pretty thin, so I don't think it's an issue.
After weeks of low temps and cruddy weather, I finally got to do a little something on the boat. Whadyuh think? I was unsure at first, but after I painted a port frame on I like it!
I also added a buffet table to the aft end of the cockpit. Pictures will follow.
Here's the new cockpit table. Big enough for the whole family and plastic covered for the little tykes that spill alot.
Can you believe it? Someone was throwing this away! That should solve the 'head' problem. And the name...it says it all :D
Another four consecutive hours of work. Something big could happen here.
Nice work there Tony, :D
What was the issue with the deck that led you to take all the gelcoat off. Did you have to recore?
Absolutely the worst job is grinding the inside of the hull, looks like you did a heroic job. Only a damn fool would do it, just plain nuts!
Somebody should invent a handy sandblaster like a wand that would spit out the media and vacuum it up at the same time. Have some different tips, but you'd wave it over hull and the paint would dissappear. With an adjustment you could remove paint from ply with it. You'd still wear a mask but the air wouldn't be dirty, nor the rest of the surfaces in the boat. Sigh
If you want to just remove paint , use corn meal as the blast media , for decades we have used that in restoration of motorcycles and cars . It is hard enough to take off paint and leave a beautiful surface .
Ebb,
The decks were gray which I thought would get too warm. Also, they were coated, rather haphazzardly I might add, with a rubberized paint. Add to that the fact that we had to do some cosmetic work on those ugliest of side deck scuppers and it just, plain and simple, had to come off. A long arduous job I hope no one else has to do again. But on the lighter side, it was then I discovered that one of the POs had allready done a recore job on 113. Wow! I'm off the hook!
So..well, you know how it goes. I have to fill in the scupper cut-outs and make some new ones farther back on the side decks where the water actually pools. And then I thought about frameless ports in the main cabin, dorade vents, a sea hood, an instrument dashboard, new sliding hatch, dropboards, winch pads, a new toe-rail, a new rub-rail, an anchor locker, thru-hulls and seacocks, MSD and holding tank, water tank, alot to do with the spars, oh yeah-we gotta modify the outboard well for a four stroke, etc.. That says nothing to the fact of all the canvas work and all of the interior work yet to be done.
Now, none of this should be a problem because I've finally secured a slip next year. So I guess we have an official deadline to meet. Whew! I was begining to think this job would never end. To think it all started with a 'sail away' boat with a little rot in the bottom of a bulkhead.
Sir, I need a machine that goes around vacuuming up behind me constantly! No matter what I'm doing I'm making more dust and dirt. It seems I can't even sit on my boat a drink a beer without making a slight mess. :eek:
I'm bewildered and tired, but grinning. :cool:
A 6hp 4 stroke fits fine as is and is all the power you need and only weighs 55lbs , a 9.9 is 115 or more . The sump on the 8's & 9.9's gets in the way .
Just got my Nissan 6 back from servicing
Mike,
Maybe I'm just whimping out with my advancing age, but, I'd like both electric start and an alternator on the outboard. Lighter weight sure would be nice. If there was a company out there that sold good, cheap, quality made (pick any two) after market pieces that one could slap on a 6HP we'd be all over that.
Mike,
Like 'true grit' as a vegetarian option for sand as the media! Might there be a chance for whirled peas too? Coarse salt? Walnut shells?
It'll be a two bag unit, one for the maize, the other for the vacuumed stuff. The Hog Feed Dustless Paint Removal System. It's gonna wait tho, I'm NEVER going to grind another hull again, inside or out!!! EVER. No, I mean NEVER!
Interesting the difference in weight 2 horses make. Tony, you point out the 8 and 10 have electric tilt. And an alternater. As I recall the literature on my 8/4, it is a high thrust set up with the exhaust directed out the prop for forward and reverse. When I 'researched' the net it was clear that 8s, 10s and 15s are up and down every river and estuary, bay and harbor in the world pushing fish boats and barges, on the back end of anything that floats - probably without scheduled maintenance and fresh water flush. How can anybody afford $3000 for an 8? They cost that Here, now!
Forward into the breech :eek:
My 6hp 4 stroke has a charging system , no electric start , I do have a vertical pull hand start and it starts on the 1st or 2nd pull every time with ease . In the slip next to me my friend Mark has a 9.9 Johnson electric start and I can get started faster than him every time . I also can remove and install the motor underway much safer and faster than he . I'm rapidly approaching 60 too!
Ebb, walnut shells are much harder than cornmeal , and don't taste as good in a hush puppy .
This was a messy job. Once the epoxy fully cures we'll back fill all around the ports by pumping in thickened epoxy three to four inches fore and aft and two inches up top. The strip between the ports will be beefed-up too. Then, out come the jigs...
Ports du look gud, dude!
Are you using the old frames? I MAY yet convince myself that putting on 'west coast' windows is the way it ought be. Easier and stronger, easier and quicker to replace. Lexan needs replacing. Aesthetics is a stronger consideration for using the frames. Tho the studded look has a kind of harley modern look. :cool:
All four of the inside frames were either cracked or crumbling. As we live in the middle of the country I don't have access to all of those chandlery and parts stores you 'coasters' do. I'm going to try something along the lines of the Morris Yachts daysailor. If it all turns to $#!^ I can always backtrack to the bolted on ports, even though its not my favorite. I suppose we could drop three grand and buy some shiney, big opening ports. Yeah, right...
Only Morris Yacht's Daysailer found is a 36' Sparkman and Stephens designed Scotch and Teak throwback what has windows that look like they are 'lined' perhaps within the thickness of the cabin sides, but have no discernable frames outside per se in what I found. It difinitely is a IGOTMONEY yacht, way cool, way expensive, with sitting room only below.
How you gonna proceed Capt? I did notice that the holes you have in the sides of the cabin are VERY nicely trimmed and clean. I couldn't clean up 338's because the frames ride on only about 1/4". And the guy who cut them out in 1964 musta had a liquid lunch. What's up?
First off, don't be fooled by these pics. Those port are four different shapes and sizes. You'd think they would have had a jig of some sort at Pearson. Hell, at least a pattern to trace!
We've concocted a little jig for the job. In theory, it should provide the female form for the epoxy blend that will become our port, provide the pattern for the lexan for the lite, and act as the placement jig for the holes to be drilled and tapped for the stainless bolts and, yes, be a cutting and drilling jig for the inside frames. And as an added bonus, it's made mostly from discarded material.
Ater the some grinding and sanding and surface prep the jig will be clamped to the cabin side through the six holes. Then fill the gap between the existing ports and the jig with the extra special epoxy blend. Then wait. Once she has an intial cure we can 'pop' off the jigs and take a look. Then the jigs go back on and we drill all of the holes. Once the hole are drilled then off comes the jig and in goes the tap. When the hole are tapped we'll drill a countersink for the bolt heads. Once the bolts are screwed in...well, it's all down hill from there :cool: A little fillin' and fairin' and we're ready for primer.
Here's a picture of the jig...
Well, that's one of them. We made matching fore and aft or port and starboard, whatever.
Here's a shot that shows the angle of the male mold for drainage. It's a fifteen degree cut. So, if you minus the five to seven degrees of the cabin top you still have around ten degrees to shed water. I hope that's enough.
Here's the beginings of the male mold for the new scuppers...come on, work with me ;)
Do I understand yer going to mold a frame in place !!! Holy Minnihaha! Brave Soul. Naw I think yer gonna do it flat ie horizontal. right?
I've run into some kevlar paste - is that the secret ingredient? Probably better than carbon in this ap. There's a bunch of metal-filled epoxies around - can't wait til ya spill the beans. NO! Yer NOT using hog feed in the mix, are you???
In situ, baby!!!
I'm sure I'll end up throwin some swear words in the mix too. Somewhere I've got a link to a site that shows how to make a vacuum pump from a refrigerator compressor. That's the next stage here.
After this Ariel is done we've got this beat-up Ensign that is going to be, well, redone. This won't be your classic daysailor. Nowadays, I think the kids say, "pimp my ride, beeotch!" :p
Anyways, here's what we're aiming for in the scupper.
The quart of PVA (releasing agent) finally showed up. I guess I'd better get started on the ports soon enough or we'll run out of summer. I've been going through the 'plan' over and over and I won't really know what happens until I'm in it up to my arm pits.
But first I had to fill a couple of other holes and tackle the chainplate areas.
...here's one cleaned out...
With the chainplate wrapped in plastic and ready for some epoxy...
Yeah, I admit it. Sometimes I go a little overboard on this boat stuff. Like the other day I got a great deal on this 350# danforth.
Tonio,
For a release agent on top of wax you might try AquaNet Superhold from yer local drug store. Whatzat you say, Mike?
WARNING
Tony, if you do decide to use hair spray, do NOT use Aquanet.
I was preparing a couple female molds (new hatch slide rails) and the Aquanet did not dry. So I went to find an expert. I found a pert youg lady at Longs who agreed the A. stayed sticky on her hair too. She suggested I try L'Oreal Studioline Fast Forwrd Quick Dry Strong Hold. Yup.
What it did was mist on the work very easily as it mists in a very fine cloud - rather than spray. No droplets. Seemed to be a real plus getting an even coat even down inside. It covered the sticky stuff and dried. 3 coats. I just popped the pieces out of the molds. Worked like a charm. Side benifit was the garage had this nice feminine scent to it. Kind of made you stand up a little straighter and suck in your stomach.
My new rails look real sexy! :cool:
How those frames coming?
Ebb,
Thanks for the heads up on the hair spray. The PVA worked less than beautiful :D . When we fire up the vaccuum table we'll try the L'Oreal.
The port frames are molded in! Because there'll be some grinding to do on them and other parts of the boat, I'm doing a bunch of different little jobs that will result in grinding so I's can do all of the grinding at one time. Ick...
Just finished prepping the forward hatch. You know, I can glue wood all day long, but when it comes to cutting it I get nervous and worry that I'm going to ruin it. I need boat therapy soon........
Excellent work on the hatch! Rounded corners, whoa, now ya talking! :cool: Nice hatch too. The cast aluminum Bomar's 338 ended up with weigh a ton.
As to "popping" finished pieces out of a female mold OR off a male mold, here, for what its worth, is a couple observations.
I use a blue colored specific mold wax. The color helps in spreading it evenly around, which I do with my hands. Put it on, let it dry briefly, buff it up. Do it again. I do three times, then it gets old. I think next time I'm gonna wax and buff at least six times to be certain of complete release.
Made sure the molds were designed to release the completed lam. But getting the pieces started was difficult, Any corners holds the piece real tight, so, have to get one side started for the mold to let go. Everything may seem loose but will stay stuck! On my male mold (the hutch) I did not wax enough and/or hair spray enough (I had made the mistake of using AquaNet, also) and ended up deconstructing the goddam mold from the inside. Bad. Real bad.
I'm using epoxy for this polyester type work. {Believe it's argueable that polyester shrinks a little because of solvents thereby aiding in removal - while 100% solids epoxy doesn't] Gel coat is probably the real secret for successful female molding. My epoxy gel coat is slightly thickened laminating epoxy with universal white color added. I could not get it thick enough because I wanted to do the whole piece at once. Thick first coat just got squeezed out where ever I pushed and poked the xmatt into the mold. Maybe there's a way to get three color coat layers on by getting them to go off but not go hard while the cloth is going in. That would be too organized! But I'm a coward, and therefor the pieces will have to be finished when in place on the boat. :o
Wow. Really slick hatches Tony! Very very nice! And a nice shop too...
So is the plan to add ambience down below with those aquariums? :D
/me see's those hatches.
/me drools.
:D :rolleyes: :D
Oh baby, Oh baby......That's nice
Another good thing about our boats--you can stick your head out the hatch and see where you're going while taking a whiz
Better be a good aim and/or smooth water! Ya miss, it's yer bed...
Well, this stinks. The top of the instrument 'dash' is 10'-1 1/2" off of the shop floor on the trailer. The distance from the threshold(?) the the top of the door opening is 9'-6". I thought if it was close I'd just let the air out of the tires, or, take the tires and rims off of one axel and let the other one squat down.
We don't have time to fart around with half-baked, hair-brained ideas. So...it looks like we'll have to redesign the seahood to make it removable. That's just one more bead of sealant to maintain that I was hoping to not have to deal with. :(
Actually, this has been a thought that has been burning in the back of my mind for some time now. I just didn't want to face the fact. So we'll press on.
Here's the frame for the new main hatch! It has three coats of varnish on it now so I feel I can start working with it and not be so careful. Of course it will get about another six or seven coat before being deemed 'done'.
It will have a white plexi panel on top to let in some light without beaming in the rays and corresponding heat. I was going to put a smoked panel in to match the the forward hatch, but, a 95 degree day like todeay made me think NOT!!!
It doesn't show up in the pictures but it actually has a gently curved top so water shouldn't pool on it.
I never looked at it that way.....maybe we'll mount hatch so it opens to the aft!Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderpete
Thanks to all for the kind words and honest criticism. Sorry I haven't responded to many of the posts. I've been a little busy lately, and, the support of this group keeps me going. Well, that and more coffee than food!
SO ooo OOO Fine! Like that handle there. Nice frame, first class. How you going to lock it?
Mean to tell me you can't you can't sawzall the top of the garage door opening - make like a hinged one foot tall however wide piece that'll swings up out of the way when needed??? Hey! the boat comes FIRST!!! Self, wife, kids, family, dogs, taxes, religion, govmint: AFTER the boat. You got that?
Hot and humid weather makes me think about water. I just can't drink enough of it. We bought this baby from a guy in MI. It came out of a Cape Dory 28.
Placement and support is proving to be more difficult than I thought :eek:
I realize that this is a pretty insignificant step compared to all of the work you others have done and are doing out there. But we're actually putting something on the boat instead of taking things off.
Sole( or maybe they're called sub-sole )boards are going down and I wanted to get the forward areas of the bilge painted out first.
...here's the bottom sides getting sealed with epoxy...
...and here's how they fit together...
Go for it, Tony, nice work.
Be interested to see what that upper step becomes. Guess you're partially closing off the V-berth 'aisle' for stowage?
What is it they say?
"A remodel of a thousand angles begins with a single piece of ply."
Gorgeous prep on the hull!!!
Tony -
Do you take photo requests? :D I'd like to see what shape you settled on for the opening through the bulkhead... I really liked the rounded-corners one that you had prototyped in cardboard back many pages ago.
Also, I'm thinking that I am going to sell my window frames, and go with Lexan bolted on from the outside. Probably too late for you to be interested in them, but I thought I'd mention it in case your molding hasn't progressed too far, or if you run into troubles with it (which I hope you don't! I considered doing something similar a while back...).
She's looking reeeaaalll nice. :D
I'll take a picture of anything!!! We're currently leaning towards the same shape on the top of the passageway and a flat foothold on the bottom. After stumbling through there so many times working in the v-berth I think a moving target may be even harder for me. Man, old age s****s!
As of tonight we're ready to laminate the 'furniture' pieces that are going beck into the v-berth area. Then I'll have a suitable platform to work from for the 'toe-rail' job. yeeeh...
Everybody seems to be dealing with the heat, so I'll spare you the whinning. but 90+ degrees and 70%+ humidity make hand sanding and shaping a little more messy. I've just finished off my first seven gallons of epoxy and I think I've sanded away at least four gallons worth :D
found some time the other morning to cut holes for the dorade vents. The cabin top here was a full 3/4" thick. Cool.
Because of the lack of room and, more importantly, the fact that I only had a 52" stick of teak left, we made a modified dorade box. It will still drain through weap holes but the air will have to go around a baffle. Such is life. I'll deal with it...
What really stinks is my boring bit/countersink and plug cutter are two different sizes. I had enough scrap to cut ten plugs. Plan D
You know Tony, you may have something there! Never seen this design be for - and why won't it work? Unique!
Everyday dorade boxes have one or two baffles across the box to help separate water from the air coming in the cowl. I can't see why Tony's horizontal/slant innovation won't work just as well - if not better!
One of the 'improvements' I've noted in my collection of Other People ideas is the install of two access plates on top of the box. The idea being that in good weather you could move the cowl right over the hole to get direct air flow below.
Another was to put on a lexan top instead of teak to get light thru the opening. Which is to say that maybe your slanted baffle plate could be lexan, or even the top as well? (The second plate over the forward opening might also get more air below with the cowl there!)
Anyway, just my way of expressing enthusiasm for your invention! Way cool!!!
Don't ferget the limbers in the corners!!! :D
It's already August 12th. :eek: That puts me about...uh...mmm....4 or 5 weeks behind schedule. Just spent two week NOT working on the boat tending to other business. I was intending these last two week to be used for letting the paint fully cure. Ha!
I was finally able to get back at this weekend. The v-berth fixins are tabbed in. Biaxial (4"), matting, roving, matting, cloth. That should be pretty similar to the schedule that what was in there to begin with. Anyone find anything different than that?
The port openings have been drilled, threaded, redrilled, and the stainless bolts installed. The bolt holes got some epoxy pushed in, and now have two coats of fairing compound. Several more to go for sure!
Made a White Oak beam that will get glassed into the lazarette (just for you, Whaleshark!) to become the backing plate for the backstay chainplate. If I can get a picture of what's in there now I'll post it. You wouldn't believe it!
It's time to start looking at the hull too. I guess it's a bad time to be opening another store on top of all this. I mean, priorities being as they are, come on, the boat come first. :D
eh...I just couldn't help myself. Sometimes, I dunno what comes over me :eek:
Actually, I had to get at this thing. It has been bothering me for five years now. After we first got 113 home I noticed we had some leaky deck fittings. That's ok, I thought, we can fix that. Besides, the water always found it's way to the bilge where it should end up. But one time I didn't get back on board for a day or two to 'sop' up the bilge. When I pulled board up the water was gone! A little while later I noticed water pooling by the rudder shoe.
After opening things up this morning I was able to confirm my suspicions. A little grindin', a little fillin', a little glassin'. Top that off with some paint to spiffy things up a bit. Viola! We got ourself a new wine locker :cool:
The sole seemed solid as a rock. However, one can see that many a gallon has poured over these soles.
Everything that goes back in will be sealed in two coats of epoxy and painted with bilge kote. Yes, I do intend to have this boat for the rest of my life.
After we got the stringers for the ceiling strips shaped and tabbed in we slapped on a few coats of paint.
Tony, you boat will be one fine vessel when you're all done! Hey, how are thos scuppers coming out?
Tony, One of the better looking bilges we've seen!
Are you going to insulate the hull? That and ceiling is another sixmo!! I found a deal on 1/2" Ensolite (turned out it was actually 5/8" - probably why the deal). I like your idea of sealing the hull. Have convinced self it's important, but only non-solvent stuff I found was that white tank coating from epoxyproducts.com. It's hard, not like a paint and takes 3 coats to get all white. I'm sick of epoxy by now, damn!
Did seal the bilge with it.
Get any further with the windows? Like to see....!
Mike, the scuppers are in a holding pattern for right now. My epoxy/cockpit table is still on the boat. I also have to find another vacuum pump. My old gast has a torn diaphram :eek: and the screw heads are so corroded from salt water there is NO way to back them out anymore. After I finish the bilge I'll scoot up under the cockpit to do some work there and then, hopefully, will get the scuppers in place.
Ebb, The ports are faired on the outside. Two, maybe three more coats of fairing compound to complete the openings and inside. The bolts are all in place and the lexan is waiting to be cut and drilled. I'm tellin' you, man, the idea came from your anchor chain well. It's cool. I like the clean look. yesterday I made a profile sanding block for finish work. I'll snap a few pics for you guys.
I had to see for myself...That keel void thing...well, everybodys got one!
It started out with a little inocent dremel work along some cracks in the bilge. Some were deeper than others, and, there was a spot that just sounded hollow and weak. What the heck, I thought. I knew I'l have to do some 'poxy work in there anyway. Out came the 1/2" bit. It took little pressure and about half a second to pop through the little glass that remained.
I probed around a bit. Swore. Probed a bit more. Swore alot more. The only good thing is five years on the hard meant she was pretty dry in there. I hooked the shop vac up to it with the hose on the output and let her run/heat/dry for a couple of hours just for good measure.
After much more digging I decided to fill it back up with foam-it and seal it on the top side. We'll have to inspect the heel area well later on. Definitely before we dunk.
What's in there you ask?
Here's what it looked like before the foam really went wild. By the days end we had sanded it down and applied the first coat of thickened epoxy. Once there is enough epoxy down there we'll put in some matt, fabric, roving, and a light weight fabric on top to help smooth things out. If you've ever poked or sliced your finger cleaning a bilge, you know why I'm being anal. :D
G A W W W D ! ! !
I thought about taking a look and then forgot! Loosing it.
In pic #162, what did you make of the 'cake' stuff between layers in the hole? Do I understand you foamed the void? To me it shows that the ballast has settled in the years since it was put in there with shop floor shims.
For anybody rennovating...
It obviously important to find out the condition of the ballast. In my considered opinion any void should be filled solid with something that will keep the space clear of water that seeps through the hull laminate and down through the bilge. And through the sump, if the boat has one like 338, at the end of the ballast.
It's possible, but nobody has reported it, that the ballast could work, move, as the boat is sailed. Even tho the area is supposedly sealed, my feeling was that if the boat went aground and holed herself down there at least it would be mostly solid stuff exposed in 338's case. :eek:
Ebb, The area we're dealing with here is behind the lead ballast. Those holes I drilled are in the aft section of the bilge where it begins to rise from the deepest part.
The stuff in post# 162 is the original foam. It was dry and stuck to the glass pretty good. Initially, I dug rather agressively with my big, busted screwdriver thinking I would be replacing alot more foam filler. Not much of it came loose though. The top hole didn't even commincate with the bottom three. The bottom three shared a space just below the surface of the fiberglass. The biggest hole had a 1/2" crevice that lead downward about 8". After fishing around with some stiff wire I decided it really wasn't as bad as I thought, and, I had better start thinking about repairing the void instead of making it worse.
Yeah, I may have water migrating into the void again, but it won't come from the bilge. One of these fine vessels has a drainplug installed and I'm begining to think that may be the way to handle seepage. Maybe even two plugs so you could force air through to facilitate drying....would the owner of said boat lead me to the link?
It's described in the manual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony G
Hey Tony, I got the proportions wrong, what we were looking at. So you are putting foam back in.
Strange, in all the years I've been mucking about they have not come up with another type of expanding foam than polyurethane. Watch that stuff, the fumes are genuinely lethal, pour and get out of the boat immediately, enjoy your posts, fruits of labor! I've recently used some one part out of an aersol can. Not the same as two part. Befor it settles down it seems to shrink.
It isn't much further down to the bottom at the end of the encapsulated lead, like you say, maybe 8". Since I tanked 338 under the sole and brought fittings out the bottom of the tank aft, which is the top of the ballast, I found the extra depth convenient for turning T's and so forth. It's tight down in there. Also there's just enough room for a small bilge pump and maybe the hose end from the manual. Not much volume tho.
So I'll leave some of the very narrow V going back to the rudder unfilled to gain a couple gallons. The narrow V is suspiciously sloped up at the end of the hull and probably stuffed with unraveled roving and unreinforced plastic. 338 came without Everett's folly tho. Lucky, I guess. Otherwise, without the volume under the sole, tanked, it won't take but a few gallons to put bilge water on the cabin sole!
You know they don't guarantee expanded foam against water intrusion. They say closed cell but water gets in anyway. I asked the guys at TAP, complaining as I do at the quality of products consumer, one suggested mixing styrofoam pellets and epoxy for a filler. I mentioned epoxy exotherm might be excessive, so you'd have to do small batches. It's an untried idea. Maybe cheaper than buying the 2 qt foam kit for such a small space. :rolleyes:
Another day and a little more progress...
Out with the old!
Yee! 'Pretty sure the EPA won't let me toss those in the dumpster.
We changed the sole under the galley a bit. It'll ride lower and be a little skinnier.
...in with the new.
Had enough time to squeeze out a set of these today too.
Thanks to Karen and Jerry ( and Mark A. too) for timely article in Good Old Boat magazine. It is a bit more 'complex' than I had originally planned but I like it much more.
Ebb, this post is for you. Not a whole lot to look at yet.
The s.s. bolts stick out about 5/8". The outside it ready for a little more fairing compound.
I took CPete's lead and bought some barrel nuts. Each port will get 6 of them to hold the trim piece on inside. The rest of the bolts get washers and nuts to hole the lite in place.
I'm leaning toward butyl as a sealant and then run a bead of whilte 101 around the opening to hide the black. I dunno...that's a ways away yet. things can change here in a day!
Whal arl be hornswaggled!
Believe I got the concept, didn't imagine the outer unframes so smooth. No doubt 'see' it better with the shiney finish coat creating some shape and shadow. And you'll paint the cabin color right up to the lite, right?
Can't see why it won't work - it's truely hydrodynamic - great idea! If I hadn't restored my frames I might steal it for 338. It's real stealth! Got a shot of the molds? You must have said already but what reinforcement if any did you use in the pieces?
Might finish your system with butyl for the mere ease of maintenance (replacement). Don't know what curves you got but they must be like 338's. I'd guesstimate that the lites theirselves have about a 1/4" curve. Curved lex will fit in there like hand in glove.
(Noticed with most sheet material and my piece of 4X8 3/8" lexan that sheets have a natural side they want to curve to. You know, balance the sheet on edge, sight down its length, and lo! there's a side that wants to bend more than the other, imco. Anyway it's that curve that the plastic wants most to spend its life in. Even after a piece is cut small like the window lite and it looks flat, it'll want to take a curve one way best. This curve adds a lot of strength to a flat panel. And I'd guess the natural curve has little stress. You can persuade lexan into more of a curve with hot water, or even weight in the middle of a span for a period of time. My method for 338's. Don't think 1/2" lexan can be 'naturally' bent. Aside from smoke grey lites. 338 will have a lexan main hatch slide and probably drop boards too. All the curves, real & imagined, will be facing out! :eek: )
Your window invention is great! Maybe the arguement is that if the butyl doesn't work for some reason you can easily upgrade to something nastier! But the combers will slide right on bye! And those bolts, what are they? 1/4" - and how many? well, Nuttin' is gonna stir them babies. :cool:
Ebb,
The basic mold/form for the ports is pictured in post #124 on this very same thread. In that photo the holes have not been drilled yet. The bolt spacing/placement was determined and holes were drilled on the mold to act as drill guides so every port should be the same (mechanically, and in theory, of course).
The mix was a relatively loose mix of epoxy and cabosil with milled glass fibers(hate the stuff) and hand chopped roving fibers 1 1/2" to 2" long. What a MESS! The molds were clamped onto the previously shimmed and spot filled port openings. Then the 'mix' was added, poked, twisted, pulled into place. It really moved as one glob from the pot to the mold, and more than once I thought this is never going to work. I was almost scared to knock the molds off when it was cured. Thought for sure I'd be grinding the whole mess down and going with plan D or E. But I'm stubborn and did the job in managable stages.
The bolts are 1/4". I drew the original concept with smaller ( I forget the # size) but when I was standing in the aisle at the store I kept thinking these are way too small-I'll bend them trying to sand the filler.
There is a little bow in the openings. That's why I'm leaning toward a butyl seal. The stuff can fill iregularities with ease and it's not so bad to work with.
Sure wish I could get that high-build primer that you've been using. The local SW can't/won't get it.
You should be able to find white butyl. I got some at Ace Hardware for something like 2.50 a tube. I used 4 tubes, I think, on Dasein's 4 deadlights, 6 ports, and a couple of odd plastic fittings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony G
Nathan,
Thanks for the heads up at Ace. I love my neighborhood Ace store. While they may not be a true chandlery, it is the only place around here to find 5200 or a decent assortment of stainless fasteners.
Mike,
Well, the vacuum pump was a complete wash...We applied the K.I.S.S. principle and it worked just fine. It was like sand casting, sort of, and upside down.
I taped the mold with packing tape, being the PVA turned out to be a PIA, then stapled the matt in place to keep it from sliding out of place. The matt was heavily wetted and a layer of FG fabric was worked down over the top. Cover the mess with lightweight plastic wrap and pack it six inches of sand.
After about four hours I dug it out and put some filler on the back and added some styro pieces for build up and waited another hour or two. When it got to a real tacky state, I wetted out some more matt and covered the back again. By night fall it was ready to come off the mold.
Here's what the cat coughed up...
Here's the top side. You can see the lines from the tape. Of course it still needs sanding and some filleting and fairing on the 'pretty' side. The bottom will get some more reinforcing.
After nearly a week away from working on the boat I'm starting to fear I may not finish her in time for launch next spring :(
Here's a mod job by one of the previous owners. While moving the backstay chainplate to the outside of the transom was a great move the knee adaptation left a little to be desired.
If you can see it on this archival photo, the modification consisted of sistering two pieces of 3/4" oak to the original knee, wrapping it with a piece of fiberglass( pasted right over the paint), then drilling four holes betweenthe sister and the original knee but only using the bottom three holes for attachment.
That just wouldn't do...
I dug around and found a 1 1/2" X 2 1/4" piece of white oak that should work just fine. It was coated with epoxy and fitted, along with some styro fillets, into the lazarette. I also added some transverse stringers back here for strength.
And while we were in the neighborhood I thought we'd remove the old mainsheet block pads. This way, when we get to installing the traveller we won't have to do any custom scribbing and cutting. I mean-come on-who's got time for that! :D
Tony, she'll be a one of a kind when you'r done with her! And by the way, those are some fine looking scuppers, I must say!
Now you're cooking.
I think she's ready for sea
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...et/4203594.stm
Thanks Cpete, for that!
The Brits still seem to suffer fools and eccentrics more gladly than anybody. Over here the guy would have ended up in the slammer and sent the bill for the chopper rescue. Except the USCG would not have considered it a life threatening situation and left him adrift. One thing to think about though is that hole in the landscape they call Lulworth that the guy, I guess, hailed from, he shudda left there long ago! :eek:
I couldn't wait a day longer. We're running out of good weather here for epoxy and painting weather is all but gone. So I had to tackle that pesky deck/hull seam once and for all.
I seem to remember what a PIA it was to grind it out and now I know for sure it is a PIA to glass! I looked back to C Pete's thread when he did it and every other post regarding the topic. I decided to just go with 4" biaxial covered with 7oz. 6" tape and skip my initial plans to completely fill the cavity below the molded toe rail.
Here's what it looked like minutes before I started. Everything in waxed paper and layed out in order. cooler close at hand filled with cold packs to keep the epoxy from going off too soon.
Three years and one afternoon later...
Good. Now that nasty job is done I don't need these setees hangin' around anymore. ;)
I don't think I posted anything on the sea hood in a while.
Here's a 'dry run' with the new hatch to check for clearance. The dash board needs a little sealant to hide the outer seam and the display heads will add a touch of realism also.
Maybe I should have taped the covers up there for the picture?
Tony.
Like that pull on the slider!
Hull/deck seam
A L L
at one time??
Holy Mackerel :eek:
Had a tough day working. Every hour or so I had to run outside to see what was flying overhead. The local air museum is having a WWII exhibit. B-17, P-51, Corsair (love that plane) and I think the Zero even took to the skies. Wow!
Way back when I joked about shag carpet and curves. Well, the shag might not happen. I thought I'd try to make our own plywood today. What the heck, if you're going to make plywood you might as well make radiused plywood, huh?
We knew we'd need a 24" chunk and at least a 33-36" piece too. So I thought I'd make a jig that would pull a double duty. It forms a 2 1/4" radius (in theory, that is) by pulling 1/8" plys into the jig using pipe clamps and heavy walled 4" PVC. The 24" piece is setting up now as I type. Maybe tomorrow we can slow down enough to get an action shot.
24" mode...
Holey cats my shop is getting filthy. I need a day just for cleaning!!!
Here's a shot of 'Le jigue' in 36" modus. I hope to try this setting out tomorrow.
Doing some excellent quality work there Tony.
What's the plan with them jigs?
This is supposed to be the last B-29 still flying
I ain't much of a cameraman
..aint much of a cameraman!?! Why Pete, I've been very fond of a number of the photos you've posted ;) deck hardware and nav aids to name a couple.
We're pretty lucky to have the Fargo Air Museum close by. It's not a big facility by any means but the owner/curator has a heck of a collection. Including a super corsair, one of eight remaining and the only one flying in the world.
Anyway, this is a sailboat site...
We're going to use the curved sections in the galley. The shorter piece will form the inboard corner of the ice box. That's right, I said ice box. Well, ice box/navstation/com. center. The longer of the two will form the inboard corner of the galley proper. Those two rounded corners should save alot of shin skin.
After seeing the radius I with I could find some teak veneer fast. I'd really shoot the wad on the main cabin. But as it is, it'll probably be painted white to open things up a bit. Maybe we'll put raised panels in the 'salon' to add a touch civility.
Cool beans Tony - I cannot wait to see your finished boat! But I gotta say, after seeing that sign on your workshop wall, I'm sure glad nobody has any shots of you working! :D
Icebox! in northern Minn., isn't that redundant ?
Looks great !
Tell me something......
How come you Ariel guys don't like the icebox?
Being able to reach a cold beverage while you're sitting in the cockpit.
Genius
This one likes it just fine! Nice idea.
Can you give us a shot of your vacuum bag system?