Let there be air

As I research ever more into specifics on the re/construction of an Ariel, I am continually amazed at the content available through the Search function here. Type in a word like "core" or "outboard", and it is easy to stay up into the wee hours of the morning reading others ramblings, thoughts, and digressions.

One such session last night kept me awake until 3AM, and it pushed into my head an idea which allowed me several more sleepless minutes as I lay there trying my best to forget what being awake was. Eventually I was successful at that, but first this older idea of mine came to me that I wanted to share with ya'll for feedback and general discussion.

One of the threads I ran across was regarding the Ariels large, non-opening portlights. Some said away with the fixed portlights, give me opening ports, while others posited that to remove the large window structures would be to take away from the very essence of Albergs design. I agree with both, and, being a democratic man, decided to toss out for review an idea I have kept in the back of my mind since I had narrowed The Search down to the Ariel, Triton, or B27 - all lovely boats with large greenhouse windows on their upper flanks.

Here then is a quick photo manipulation which demonstrates not only the idea, but the look of it, and how little or much it affects the overall look of the boat.

The solution can be described simply as adding in a vertical member at a point which allows for bisecting the portlight shape into a rectangle on one side, and a manyangle on the other. The larger, rectangular side would, of course, be the opening half. The reasoning for the division is to have a shape which makes the rest of the construction as straightforward as possible, for our ports must open when needed, but also be able to shut tightly and stay that way in the event of a wave seeking to join us below in our snug, warm, dry cabin. Dealing with 90* angles would make the hinging, dogging, and sealing requirments easier to meet. The rectangularization (new word?) also stengthens the portlight somewhat, providing support where there was none previously.

I think it might still be a good idea to have exterior-mountable "storm shutters" in the event of an enormous offshore blow to protect these large openings in the cabin sides, but for day-to-day use in more sheltered, calmer waters, this idea might just be workable. Feel free to add comments, ideas, and input on the feasability of this. I never said it would be easy, just doable. :)

http://liquid-epiphany.com/images/ph...ning_ports.jpg

And here is how it would look with 2 vertical supports. This configuration would allow for a sliding window opening, which I like less, but the window would be stronger.

http://liquid-epiphany.com/images/ph...ports_2bar.jpg

I think it looks fine. The real trick would be to build an opening port that doesn't leak. Few things more annoying than a leaky port.

Might get enough air with bug screens for the companionway and forward hatch, together with a fan.

Senor Epip,
Somewhere in my truly vast collection of pictures there is one of a strong window like metal grid added to the inside of a 'greenhouse' dead light. To me it looked a bit massive, the framing, but it did not change the 'era' look of the cabin outside.

I'ld check out what Jim Baldwin has to say on his Atom site.

Personally don't think it's a good idea to have the dead lights opening. Better to have smaller offshore opening ports. Believe it would be a satisfactory first surgery on an Ariel makeover. Because you would be stablizing the side of the cabin with the liner which would triple the strength of the sides and any lights you put in there. You would also end up with a leak proof installation, whatever way you go.

Jim says he did away with his storm shutters by redoing his deadlights as he describes. I've filled my openings between the liner and side and the difference is amazing. Even without the lights mounted it is very rigid. The center sections between the lights befor stiffening were as floppy as fly swatters. The original installation that depends on the frames and glass for stiffening is, in a word, lousey. As you may know, I've also decided to go with the original frames, had them powder coated and will go with lexan. Going with plastic means there is a maintenance issue you have to plan for.

Also, the frames clamp around the holes with very little to spare. Like 1/4" all around, maybe a little more. Very uncomfortable with that. It means a very precise, pickey, installation. Most skippers end up by thru bolting lexan to the out side - a very strong solution and straight forward later replacement - but too 'modern' for my taste. See Geoff's Uhuru.

Pretty sure that I'll end up with shutters of some sort. Lexan is easy to cut. And the installed stuff will have to be replaced sometime down the line. If I cut replacements from my sheet and carry them aboard I could rig them as doublers when the occasion demands on the inside with something clever whatever. I think it is possible that tons of green water slamming against the cabin WILL blow out the deadlights. Assume that you survive the knock down, having something you can brace against the hole would be good planning. Hah!

Miles Smeeton in Once is Enough describes one of his two 360s as completely sheering off everything at deck level, including things like cleats and rails and dorades! Smoother the sides of the cabin the better on 338.

Wonder what you will come up with? Compromises, compromises, compromises!

Big E,

It can be done! But I think you would need dogs about every four inches to keep the leaks unknown. Being one that doesn't see offshore work in his future, I opted for some 3" dorade vents. The 4-inchers would let in much more air but look HUGE on our little boats. Between the hatches, dorades and fans to blow the stink and heat away I'm hoping to be cool. Actually, I'm just hoping to be on the water away from the phones!

I agree with Ebb's hiden statement about the cabin sides being flimsy. Again, I'll just be a laker and not a salty, offshore sailor, but I've thought many times that the cabin sides could easily, and should be reinforced.

You could go to Wally Bryant's site for another option of venting the deadlites. He's got alot of good ideas for upgrades that he has done to his C&C landfall.

There's many differing opinions and ideas as to what is acceptable. What suits your needs best is the correct one for you. I, for one, will be watching to see what you do. I learn alot from the work of others.

Tony G

Epip,
Those sliders look good. But to develop something like that you'ld have to go to Freeman or Bauer (fish boat hatches). And you aren't going to do that. Are you?

Extra thickness for the double track and the double glass would make for a much stronger light. Clever design for the closed position with dogs would have to be engineered. Machine shop too expensive.

338's (flat/thin) aluminum deadlight frames came out dead flat after 40 years mounted to the curved side of the cabin. It isn't much of a curve but the frame is curved when you sight them on the Ariel. Curving the frames by connecting the inside to the outside in a kind of clamp with those tiny machine screws created some rigidity to the sides. The glass stays or tends to stay flat. You'ld have this to consider in your new design. Some fairing to do to mount the wide flat-glass slider in the curved side. There would have to be a caulking flange, I think, inside too, probably with the thru bolts. However the curve/chord is not more than 5/16" in the length of each light.

Offshore 1/4" lexan or glass isn't good enough on the sides. If you go with a thicker lens the unit will end up kindof wide.

Vans have after market windows available (jcwhitney.com) maybe there's some ideas there how to mount and waterproof, and some design tricks.

Blast from a firehose would be a good test. ;)

Thanks for all the responses. :) The input leads to other thoughts and possibilities...

After I did the mockup pics, I gave some thought as to how one could construct the frames. It has been years since I held a welder, and I've never cast anything - sculpture or otherwise - in metal, so fabricating my own metal frames is probably out of the question. That seems to leave either wood, or FRP. Just as a thought exercise, it may be possible to take a mold from the actual frames in situ in order to have the proper appearance, and during layup reinforce the frames with some internal metal strengthening, or perhaps even some high-techy stuff like carbon or kevlar.

Good points on the potentiality of slider tracks (that they would strengthen the structure). I think they would be the hardest to waterproof, however. The shape in the pic, though, would lend itself to strength and ease of opening-port construction, using just the middle panel as the opening portion. If it opened swinging outwards, when closed it would be braced from inside, and any pressure exerted on it from the outside would only increase pressure on its seal. More food for thought...

I have seen somewhere on this vast wide web some photos of a fellow who mounted standard bronze opening ports right into the middle of the standard deadlight material. I am of divided opinion on that for sure - while it allows airflow, it looked a bit odd to me, and I am not sure how strong it would be with hydraulic pressures of a breaking wave slamming into it.

Tony G - you mention Wally's site - care to pass along the URL?

You can have a lot of fun with doorskin (1/8" or less) - cut it with a utility knife - and glue sticks, the kind you push thru a heat gun. Doesn't glue worth a damn, just good enough. You can pull your model apart to make changes. Making a model full size really helps to see what you imagine and to simplify the design.

What I mean to say is that you can make a full size working model this way.

I found that Wally Bryant site

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/projlist.htm

Quite a project on those portlights.

You can also read how he spent $20,000 improving the mast and rigging.

I feel a little better now

Hey C'pete,
that's a keeper. Haven't been everywhere there, yet, he lets it all hang out, and puts it all back together, so to speak. Lots of useful stuff for us pipsqueeks. Is this a kind of consentual voyeurism? I love this generosity. For our sakes, may his lists never shorten,
nor his camera go out of focus!

S K A L ! everybody. And a happier new year.

Oops. Boy do I feel like a dope. Wally's site is great fun and a good source for ideas, technique and info but his opening port job is not the one I was thinking of. Somewhere out there in cyber space is a fairly detailed posting of an owner adding opening ports to the middle of his non-opening ports for the sole purpose of ventilation. I just can't remember where I read it now :(

Sorry to lead you all astray-but Wally really does have a good site.

Well, I'm all behind anyone's efforts to modify or remanufacture parts as long as it is an improvement. So this photo is not an attempt to derail E's progress. It's just an alternative (to snag lines, house hornets, stub toes, etc.)
Hey Willie, how's that for sneaking one in the back door.

TonyG -

Puuuuuuurrrrttttyyyy. :) Looks so much better than the white bendy plastic ones. At least to the eyes - toes may well have differing opinions. ;)

Methinks that you and I are speaking of the same fellow who has mounted opening ports into non-opening ports. I too have seen the pics, and I too cannot remember where. Like Vonnegut wrote - "And so it goes..."

Maybe I could glass over the deadlight spaces, and mount 4 ventilators like you have pictured, poking out from the cabin sides.

Or maybe not!!! Gawd, that would be ugly. I'm ashamed for having thunk it. :)

"Monday morning" is my only excuse...

Where did you get those, and could an inquisitive fellow also ask how many hundreds of dollars they cost apiece? Look nice, and look nicely engineered.

Apropos opening ports in the deadlights, On the sailnet.com site they have Bomar molded black (and white too, but I guess you'ld use black) frame opening portlights, smallest 5 X 12, smoke smoething lens. These are not on the Pompanette site.

I suppose you'ld upgrade the deadlights with smoke lexan and cut these in. Being ABS (I guess) there would be no problem cuttung the spigot down to size.

Scandvik imports (some) Danish hatches and portlights called Moonlight, They are very slim and slender aluminum, rated ocean, that mount with a gasket. They're 'power boaty' but they would IMHO look better than the chunky Bomars. Probably cost too!