Jib sheets configuration with lifelines??

Our Commander has pretty tall lifelines. There are blocks on tracks on the cabin top. The previous owner said that he did not run the jib sheets through the blocks and he did not know what they were for. However, since our jib was modified (foot now higher) for the lifelines, the sheets come from so far above the winches that they come off if not run through the blocks. This weekend the very old screws in one of the tracks disintegrated and it broke off. We are now replacing them and I'd like to make sure that it IS the right configuration before we do so. Can anyone offer any input into this issue? I will post a pic of what we've got asap. Thanks for help!

Here's what we had.

Better pic. Sorry.

The cabintop blocks were intended for the high clew cut sails of the day... Newer Deck sweeping cuts are more common today (more efficient).

Lots of relevant info here: Note that this is a sticky post and although made sticky for its popularity, these are often overlooked because they appear grayed-out.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...rack-placement

Bottom line: You have to rig up for the right sail shape. Your lifelines should accommodate most any configuration... a big genoa may have more trouble due to bigger sheet swing in which case you might need a genoa track / block configuration...

I do not know if that line in the picture is a sheet, but typically your sheet shoud be routed through a block on the deck before going to the winch - otherwise you'll clearly have the problem you are seeing.

You can see some headsail track (& genoa) examples in the thread linked above, and on post # 113 on the Mephisto Cat thread (jib track only)...

Thanks Rico. The blue and white line is just a dock line, sorry I don't have a clearer pic. I did read that thread, but it seemed that the discussion was pretty much all about genoas. We just have a jib, but it is cut high to clear the lifelines. We have been running the jibsheets outside all of the shrouds, though, and maybe that is part of our problem. We know that we need to run the jibsheets through a block, it's just where the block should be that has us puzzled. I saw on an O'Day site a picture of a block aft of the winch. Seems like that might work, but I do think that it was also actually being used with a genoa. The blocks on our cabin top seemed to work well enough, it just worries me that they weren't being used that way so maybe they shouldn't be. (They were pretty small blocks, too.) Incidentally, the boat did not have lifelines until a few years ago, and I don't know if any modifications were made other than shortening the jib itself.

The original sail configuration of these boats was for a high clew jib with eye straps for block attachments on the cabin trunk for the sheets. On the Ariel, these straps were fixed near the forward corners of the high section of the cabin trunk. What you describe sounds like an original Pearson configuration.

Post #10 in the thread noted by Rico, shows the modern track placement for the jib. (Disregard the line in the photo. It was holding the canvass rain cover.) The jib track location is also shown in post #3. It is the short, inside track. Searching on "jib track" will turn up a lot of threads that may be worth searching for more insight. Although the jib tracks in the two photos were optimized for low clew jibs, I believe the location will work for high clew jibs as well. Your current set up, however, should work just fine for most situations. If you're thinking of racing the boat, then you should consider going to a track and low clew jib.

Look at the photo on the cover of the original Commander brochure (you'll find one here: http://home.bway.net/bogle/commander.html ). The sheet from the high-cut clew runs aft of the forward shroud but forward of the middle/upper shroud to the track on the cabin top. From there it runs to a block on the gennie track on the toe-rail aft of the winch base then forward to the winch. It's a bit clumsy looking but works very well.

The Commander cabin is not only shorter than an Ariel's but wider leaving very narrow decks between the shrouds and the cabin top and the forward part of the coamings. Most of the old Commanders therefore had track on the cabin top and the gennie track aft of the winch base on the toe-rail to clear deck space. That's also why most were delivered without life-lines. Lifelines make it very hard to get around the shrouds and cabin on the decks without going up on the cabin top. From there one can't reach the lifelines.

I have a 125, 150, and 170 gennie. The 170's shape can be controlled well from the gennie track so far aft. The 150 not so well and the 125 has one shape and that's it. I plan to clutter up my deck with some track this year to get more shape out of the 125 and 150. When my new 125 arrives we're going to fly it and adjust the track position to provide the most options. I hope I don't regret cluttering up foot space but I'm tired of getting beat by Ariels that can get more out of the same sail.

Thanks Bill and SkipperJer. Skipper, yes!! Everything you said in your second paragraph! We hadn't thought to run through the cabin-top blocks AND blocks on the aft rail. That's something to try.

The second pic in post #47 shows a bigger, newer track on the cabin top. This is probably something we should do? What do you guys think about the sharp drop in height from the cabin top to the winch? Is that why you run to aft blocks first, Skipper?

Also, are there no concerns about the stress of the jibsheets on the shrouds? Forgive me if that's a really dumb question.

If you try to run from the cabin top directly to the winch you'll overwrap and jam up--not good especially since one usually runs the smaller jib in heavier wind. You need to keep those sheets running free by going back to the aft block then the winch.

The old high cut 100-110 working jibs sheeted to the cabin top never touch the shrouds. They run clear on any point of sail. Switching to a jib cut lower could be a problem. i wouldn't do it.

I have the original smaller track on the cabin top and it does all I need for the working jib.

Now that I understand it all makes sense!

Thanks for bearing with me guys.

The thread "Commander Sail Plan" also has relevance to this thread.