Hi All - new member

[epiphany]

Cut-n-pasting from the Yahoo Group - didn't look til after I signed on there and saw that it is basically unused. Glad to be here!

Wanted to say "Hello!". Currently I am the owner of '79 Com-Pac 23d
#26, but I have her for sale and am looking hard at different Alberg
designs of the '65-'75 era. Tops on my list is the Bristol 27, but the
nice work and community I have seen at the Ariel Association have
pushed this boat way up on the list. :)

Also want to say a big "Thanks" to all of you who have contributed
your knowledge and efforts to get these resources on the web. It makes
a huge difference for those like me who are still in the planning
stages to be able to see this kind of info, prior to having to relearn
it on our own. :)

Kurt CP23d "Epiphany"
liquid-epiphany.com

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome aboard Kurt,

I am into anyone who is having or has had an epiphany. You won't find a more supportive group of owners or Boat Association on the planet. If you buy the boat, join the Association, and buy the Association's Ariel Manual. You'll be glad that you did.

Regarding the Ariel vs. the Bristol, that all depends on what you want to do with the boat, I suppose, but don't forget to check out he hull to deck seam arrangements on both boats. My recollection from considering the Bristol 27 years ago (and by the way the Bristol 27 was my first exposure to Carl Alberg's designs), is that the deck overlays an inward turning hull flange, and is fastened to that hull flange both chemically (an adhesive/sealant) and mechanically (screws not bolts. The seam is capped with a wooden toe rail (teak I believe, but it could be mahogany).

On the Ariel hull, there is no overlap. The hull is held to the deck purely by a cold joint (glass laminate applied over the seam on the inside). The toe rail is fiberglass, and is part of the deck mold.

Although I would presume that the Bristol has a stronger hull to deck seam, they used screws rather than bolts for whatever reason. I have not heard of Ariel hull deck joints failing despite the lack of mechanical fasteners.

Both Ariel and Bristol hull deck seams can leak and probably do leak after forty years. I'd far rather reseal an Ariel seam than a Bristol seam. The Bristol seam which requires one to remove the wooden toe rail. I have done the hull seam on my Ariel. You simply remove the rub rail on the outside of the joint, clean the seam with a variety of tools and solvents, epoxy the screw holes, and re-bed. I used 5200 and the re-bedded the rail with 4200. There are many approaches, but they all just involve time, elbow grease, and goop.

The task of re-bedding a Bristol hull deck seam would be more involved. I considered a Bristol 30, but the task of attacking a badly leaking hull deck seam convinced me otherwise. When I consulted a yard foreman on that Bristol, he told me to look for another boat.

Now, if you are a Bristol fan also take a look at the Bristol 29. Not the Bristol 29.9. That's a completely a different and later boat, so don't look at the 29.9. Look at the Bristol 29. It's not an Alberg design, but the boat looks like a large and better-proportioned Bristol 27. I think it was a Halsey Herreshoff. They were usually powered with Gray Marine Gas inboards. They are really nice boats, and if I had my druthers and was about to buy a Bristol, that would be the one I would buy. I remain a big fan of the Alberg 30 built by Whitby of Canada, but the Bristol 29 could dissuade me from that decision if the power plant was updated and diesel.

Another thing to consider is the OB vs. inboard issue. If you are thinking about an OB powered Bristol 27, see the Practical Sailor boat review in their book of reviews, or available as an article from Practical Sailor. They discuss the issue of the OB in the Bristol 27, and as I recall they considered the OB model to be underpowered. The review is otherwise very favorable. On the other hand they have not reviewed the Ariel to my knowledge, so we don't know what they would conclude about our OB equipped Ariels power-wise or other wise.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I think that the Ariel is prettier than the Bristol 27. The Bristol 27 has a high doghouse. It can be made aesthetically more pleasing with a dodger. The Brostol 27, however, has very nice hull lines. The Alberg 30 and Bristol 29 are sheer poetry in motion or at rest.

In all of the above boats you are buying a CCA design, so get ready to sail on your ear.
:)

[epiphany]

Hi Scott - Thanks!

Still on the hunt. Closest thing I've found (which is really not close at all) is a B27 about 1K miles from here with a fairly recent repower (diesel). Have to sell my current boat first, though.

Have spoken with one owner who told me he'd had to fix a seam leak, at the point where the scuppers are. It was not an easy task, but at the same time not overly hard, says he.

Had another fellow besides you recommend the B29. Only been able to find a couple of those around for sale, and they've been north of my price range by a few degrees of latitude.

One other boat I was told to look at was a Columbia 26, and I did, but I really don't see anything there I like - it's a copy of another 24, stretched 2 feet with a plug at the hull midpoint. Hmm... It was attractive to me as an Albin Vega is - that's to say, I know it may well be a fine vessel, but it will be so for someone else, they're just not to my own personal taste.

A fellow at my former marina has an Alberg 36, the last one built of a total of 7 that were made. It was CA's last design, I'm told, and sadly, it's price was even farther north than the B29's. I think he'll be asking in the range of $35K and up for her.

I don't mind sailing on a tippy boat. ;)

I believe I read another post of yours that said you used to make surfboards? Me too. Here on the east coast for a number of years, and a couple of winter seasons out on the North Shore. Got to work with the big guys out there, it was a great experience.

Thanks again. :)

[Scott Galloway]

Kurt,

I am afraid that I am an amateur when it comes to surfboards. However being an amateur, by definition, means that I have become semi-skilled at fiberglass repair. More recently, I am spending my time in Pearson Ariel cockpit lockers with epoxy and fiberglass cloth making my lazarette bulkhead watertight. It was originally watertight before a previous owner chopped a few holes in it, left some open and shoved PVC pipe in others. Epoxy works wonders. The Columbia 26 is full keel boat of the same vintage as the Ariel. I think the Columbia 26 owes its origin to the S&S designed Columbia 29 MKI. If you looked closely at a Columbia 29 MK I and then at a Columbia 26, and then at a Columbia 24, you would probably conclude that the Columbia folks just shrunk down the 29 to make the 26 and 24. I believe this to be the case.

The hull of the 24 is the same hull as the Columbia 24 Challenger. But both the Challenger and Columbia 24 are radically different from the Columbia 24 Contender, which I believe to be an exact duplicate of the Islander 24 hull, and which I believe was the first fiberglass boat made in Costa Mesa by Glass Laminates under contract to Joe McGlasson (Islander).

Glass Laminates later became Columbia. The Islander 24 was based on a mold made of Joe McGlasson's wooden Catalina Islander. This topic is often discussed on the Islander and Columbia web pages. The popular assertion is that the Islander 24 Bahama is the first Islander and the Columbia 24 Challenger was a knock off of that boat. The proponents of this theory have some fantasy about all Islander 24s having grooves on the hull, which were imprinted when the original mold was made from McGlasson's Catalina Islander.

In my minority opinion, the Islander 24 is the first glass boat made by McGlasson/Glass Laminates, and the Columbia Contender is the knock-off made by Glass laminates from the Islander 24 mold. I think that this is the boat that launched Glass Laminates as Columbia Yachts. I have some photos of smooth skinned Islander 24 boats on the Central Coast of California to support my theory, but of course it is just a theory. Joe McGlasson moved to Oregon, designed something called the Bahama 25, which was manufactured by Cape Foul Weather Yachts. The Cape Foul Weather Bahama 25 is an interesting little modified full keel boat, but it is problematic in a couple of ways related to the way it was put together. The Cape Foul Weather Bahama 25 somewhat resembles an International Folkboat, but not under water. I actually found one advertised by a Bay Area broker as a Marieholm 25, but there is no such boat. It was a Bahama 25. Ahhh! Now there was a project boat. I find the Columbia 24 and 26 to be ungainly looking since the trunk cabins are so large. The Ariel is a lovely boat to behold in comparison. As I recall, the Columbia 26 has a tad bit more headroom than the Ariel.

If you are into Alberg designs, don't forget to look at the somewhat higher priced Cape Dory 25D. Not the 25 mind you, which is a different boat by a different designer, but the 25D, which is diesel powered and has a unique cabin plan with a forward head.

Re: The Bristol, if you can get that toe rail off in one piece, you might be home free, but I'd hate to have to build a new toe rail. The same holds true for the Columbia 26.

I think you are correct. Dollar for dollar you will get more for your money with an Ariel in good condition, than many other boats. Before you embark on a complete restoration. however, go for a well loved and well cared for Ariel that someone has already restored, and you will find your total out of pocket expense will be much lower. There are some very cheap Ariels to be had, but just price a few items in a chandlery and you will quickly see why it might be advisable to pay more up front for a boat that some one else has restored. I did not do this. I adopted my boat from the Sea Scouts and spent a year in restoration, and several times what I could have paid for an Ariel in good racing/ cruising condition. If you like to work on boats and want to pay as you go, then restoring an Ariel is a rewarding, although not inexpensive alternative. You will learn a lot quickly on this forum from Ariel and Triton owners who have made Ariel restoration into an art form.

Why do they do this? I don't know, but I do know this. After you have sailed one of these boats in the ocean for a while, you will find yourself hooked. You keep thinking of ways to extend your range, make your boat better, faster, drier, prettier, more self sufficient, or more capable of making that voyage you have always dreamed of, whether it is just across the Bay or somewhere out there. But if it is way out there you are thinking about, and you only wish to restore one boat in your lifetime, then that Albin Vega, Bristol 29, Pearson Triton may give you more options.