Ugly New Boats

[commanderpete]

Better hold on to your boat. It doesn't seem like they are building pretty little sloops anymore.

Mostly you see these horrible tubs with a high freeboard. They try to cram extra berths and standing headroom into a little boat. Doesn't work.

Very few new boats with sweet, graceful lines. The Alerion comes to mind. And some Catboats.

This is a nice little boat.

http://www.bridgespoint.com/specs.html


Here are some pictures of one being built.


http://www.stanleyboats.com/specialJudith.htm

[glissando]

And those Bridges Point 24s look even sweeter in person. I've seen half a dozen or so up close and personal.

They're the kind of boat you see in an anchorage that you simply have to take the dink and row around for a closer looksee.

Joel White designed boats that just looked right, much like Alberg did. His passing was a loss, but his designs endure.

Tim

[commanderpete]

Bridges Point should have a few better pictures of their boat on their website. Here is a couple more.

http://www.portlandcompany.com/bpoint/

There are two new books out about Joel White. He sure designed some pretty boats.


http://www.ellsworthamerican.com/archive/news2002/06-20-02/ea_news4_06-20-02.html

[commanderpete]

The Alerion 26 and 28 are fine looking boats.

I think the 28 will set you back about $80,000.

[Al Lorman]

I don't know about the rest of you, but even after buying a Sabre 32, I find myself with an almost uncontrollable lust for an Alerion 28. Please, Commanderpete, stop posting boat porn photos.

[commanderpete]

Oooooh......A Sabre 32....Now that is a fine boat. You've done well Al.

I guess a picture of a Catalina 25 won't stir any juices.


http://www.catalinayachts.com/gallery/bay_C250/C25011.jpg

Not a bad boat, of course. And anything that gets people sailing is OK with me.

But, it seems that interior volume is what sells nowadays.

http://www.catalinayachts.com/gallery/bay_C250/C2504int.jpg

Nobody wants a classy little daysailor?


End of Rant

[D. Fox]

Regarding that new C25...I saw one at the Annapolis boat show last month with a guy who was ready to buy one based on what he'd read and seen in photos. She's completely different when you actually see her. The cabin looks big in photos but is actually only about 4' from the sole to the overhead. It was like everything was in miniature (look at the door to the head - it's only about as tall as my waist). I felt like Gulliver in there. With the stanchions on top of the cabin and angled down into the cockpit, she's ugly too. My friend was thoroughly disappointed.

WRT the Alerions, there's an Express 28 in my marina. She looks better than in the photos. This one's flag blue and the owner is very meticulous - perfectly coiled docklines, etc. She's a sight.

Dan

[Mike Goodwin]

Personally , I think that Catalina is ugly as a bus , no side decks either . I don't like boats without side decks and wide ones at that .
I have a friend with an Olsen 25 and he is quite jealous of my side decks on the Ariel .

[commanderpete]

Those advertising photos sure can make a boat look huge inside. These are Hunter's promotional photos for the 24.


http://huntermarine.com/models/240/240photo.htm

The boat draws 1' 6" with the board up. I can't see the boat as being very forgiving for the new sailor.

If you find tiller steering too complicated, you can get the Hunter 26 with a wheel.

How about this boat.

http://www.tofinou.com/gamme/index.php?bateau=TAD

Click on the bottom right corner for another photo.

Only problem is the boat is French. I won't even buy French wine.

[Mike Goodwin]

Now come on Pete , you haven't lived unless you have owned a diesel Peugeot or six .
You couldn't give me the Hunter ( if I had to keep it ).
French boats aren't that bad ,not like French beer .
That little boat is hauling butt .

[commanderpete]

I suppose I'm just out of touch.

Hunter has been using this photo in magazines to sell their new 45 footer.

http://huntermarine.com/models/450/450photo.htm

What do I see?

Loose glassware, unsecured items on the shelves, open candle flames, white leather cushions.

There are coasters under the wine glasses on the left. Coasters!

Is this boat supposed to leave the dock?

[Al Lorman]

There are boats and there are floating RV's, and there are some vessels that try to be both. Most folks who can afford a 40-plus foot boat seem to like their creature comforts. Perhaps a boat kitted out to RV specs won't sail as well as something saltier, but it will sail. At my marina, a stunning percentage of truly lovely, truly salty, boats almost never leave their slips. And the folks who have the Hunter in the slip next to mine actually sail it virtually very weekend.

[Mike Goodwin]

I wid you Pete , kinda wussy boat .

Al ,
As long as you enjoy it and dont know better , sailing a Hunter is like dating sluts . Once you meet a lady like an Ariel , well , you'll be glad you had your raingear on when you were on the Hunter .

Mike

[Al Lorman]

I don't want to start a long debate here, but this is beginning tio sound like the WoodenBoat forum, where they argue about whether the use of epoxy in a cold-molded boat disqualifies the boat from being "wooden." Sure most Hunters are ugly, but some people actually sail them and think they're OK and get more sailing us out of them than folks with claissier boats. We may prefer our Ariels, Commanders and (and, for me), Sabres, but just remember, to the WoodenBoat folks, they're trash, too. All a matter of perspective, isn't it?

Further deponent sayeth not.

[Bill]

Al is right, of course. Keep the digs polite or we'll expunge the posts :D

[glissando]

Is anyone else out there wondering why Pete is spending so much time on the Hunter websites? I know, I know...you were just curious, and experimenting, right? :)

Pete, there may be a 12-step program to get you past your sad affliction/addiction. We're all pulling for you, and hope that you can so on put this sad period of your life behind you. You have a bright future ahead. Don't blow it on youthful indiscretions...

Moving on: I don't knock anyone who gets out and sails often, no matter what I might think of their boat choice. (And of course I always have an opinion on that.) It's all about going sailing and enjoying your boat. Why does it seem that the nicest boats in any given fleet tend to be the ones that sit unused the most? Big mortgage = too much time at work. Screw that. Life's too short. I like my small boat. I get to use it. Often. (Well, except for 7 months every winter, but that's another issue--and sure to change in the coming years.)

Still, I think the big Hunters and such are designed more for the at-the-dock party crowd than for actual sailing enjoyment. To each their own. I don't have to own one. If I wanted to hang out at the dock and whoop it up instead of cruising into remote anchorages, I'd probably prefer something like that too. (Perish the thought!)

Also, FWIW, there was an interesting thread on the Wooden Boat Forum (since Al brought it up) in which the Triton (OK, not an Ariel, but soul sisters anyway) received accolades, praise, and even "honorary wooden boat" status from the often snooty, wood-over-everything users. I'm happy to hear it. Here is the link to the thread:

http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000028

A classy boat can be made of any material. A fiberglass Concordia would still be beautiful and classy, with a soul meant for sailing, and a wooden Hunter or similar would still be dock fodder with a less clear purpose.

Anyway...

Tim

[commanderpete]

No doubt about it, a good boat is one that gets used. I can't understand all the beautiful boats chained to the dock week after week. I've often thought of asking the owners if I could take their boat out for some exercise.

But, the fact is that the quality production boat builders are not building boats under 30 feet. The profit margin is in the larger boats.

The consumer market also demands larger cruising boats, even though the vast majority are only used for daysailing and maybe one or two overnights a year.

There doesn't seem to be a market for an honest little boat that will draw admiring glances. Simple, stable, easy to singlehand. Fun to sail and a joy to behold. Only a handful of builders are turning out these boats in small numbers.

Apparantly, the small boat consumer wants something with alot of interior volume, that will fit on a trailer and require no maintenance--the plastic bubble boat. No charm, no lines, questionable sailing characteristics.

The new boats of today are the used boats of tomorrow. In the future, people looking to get into sailing will find that the used boat market consists of butt ugly production boats.

As a result, this great country will lapse into a moral malaise, family values will decline, and civilization as we know it may cease to exist.

Either that, or I'm just trying to make myself feel better for owning a 38 year old boat and I'm too cheap to buy a nice big boat.

Tim, thanks for your concern. I've finished my dalliance with Hunter. I've now set my eyes on the perfect boat that has all the conveniences of home.

[mrgnstrn]

really, the saving grace here folks is the fact that our boats, the ones with class and character, can last forever, given good maintenance. and they probably will given the absolute unconditional love you have to have to own a 40 year old boat (mine turns 41 in '03).

so what about the uuuugly big boxes that float? will their owners really love and cherish and maintain? probably not.
so they will fall by the wayside, and end up in the junkyard.

ergo, ipso facto, and a lot of other latin...

our classy boats will last FOREVER, and the junk will die.

and someday, the builders will see that, stop building junk, and give our boats a run for their money.

.....but is that really a good thing....?

"not a sermon, just a though"
-km #3

[Mike Goodwin]

Commander Pete & a friend were out sailing, when they found a lamp floating in the water.
One
of them then picked it up and rubbed it, causing a genie to explode from
the
lamp. Unfortunately, it was a very low-level genie and could only grant
one
wish. They thought for a few minutes and then wished for the entire
bay & sound
to be made of the best beer in the world.

With a poof! the wish was granted. All of a sudden, Commander Pete got
really angry.

"Dammit! Now we have to piss in the boat!"

:>)

[commanderpete]

Damn. I was planning on adding a split backstay on my boat.

I figured it would make it easier to hang on while taking a whiz off the stern.

[Theis]

If you guys like smaller boats with gorgeous lines, and a boat that is really solid - has withstood the test of time, there is a really good site. None of those boats that were shown can match up to it as an all around sailor:

www.pearsonariel.org

And the site is rich with information from guys and gals that know what they are talking about - not stuff that a dealer somewhere told them at a boat show.

[commanderpete]

Just a little more boat pornography.

Students at The Landing School in Maine turn out about 6 to 8 boats a year, including the 26 foot Weekender.

Traditional styling, modern underbody, fine craftsmanship. Nice.


http://www.thelandingschool.org/ls_weekender.html

[commanderpete]

MacGregor 26 flips over in calm water, stays inverted. Two children die.

Manufacturer defends boat, saying owners manual warns that boat can capsize if water ballast tank is not filled and maximum capacity is 6 people.

Would you call this a good starter boat?



http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

[commanderpete]

Another Mac 26X capsize story.

This boat had 7 people aboard.

Kudos to the couple in the Hunter who came to the rescue.

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Rescues/7_16_00_oakland_ca.htm

[MarkCreeker]

As ugly as the Mac is, it looks like the real ugliness is the captain with too much booze in his system. And were those kids wearing PFD's? :mad:

[ebb]

and you've created some great exchanges!
This ugky boat thread is one great read from top to bottom!

(*John Madden keeping it clean for the TV audience)

[commanderpete]

What troubles me about the MacGregor is how the boat is marketed.

http://www.macgregor26.com/table.htm


The target buyer is the entry level sailor with little or no experience. The MacGregor promotional literature claims that "You can learn to sail in an afternoon." The new owner just needs to "Read one of the widely available pamphlets on the basics of sailing." The take the boat out for a few hours. "After an afternoon of this you will be fairly accomplished."

Of course, this is ludicrous. A new sailor will make numerous blunders and get themselves into awkward and potentially dangerous situations. The novice sailor out with their family is better served by a boat that is more forgiving of the inevitible lapses in judgment.

Instead, the MacGregor literature warns that failing to adhere to any one of their numerous warnings may lead to a sudden and possibly catastrophic capsize. Doing any of the following may be disasterous:

--Sailing without the ballast tank completely full

--Powering with the centerboard down

--Powering with the rudder down

--Sailing on a windy day with the sheets cleated off

--Failing to securely close the transom valve or vent plug

--Powering over 6 mph with the sails up

--Operating the boat with more than 6 aboard

--Allowing passengers on the deck or cabin top

--Powering fast with more than 4 adults aboard


Although sailing with the ballast tank empty is dangerous, MacGregor advertises that if you empty the tank, you can reach speeds of 17 mph under sail.

Despite the fact that the boat is overloaded with more than 6 people, they say the boat "sleeps 6." I suppose you have to leave chubby people and the dog at home.

Certainly every boat is a compromise. On this boat, you get speed under power, interior volume and a cheap price. You just have to give up stability, good looks and build quality. (Although its nice to see that they are no longer using plastic mooring cleats secured with only two bolts).

Its just hard to believe that so many people are willing to make these compromises.

Not to say that our Ariels and Commanders were top of the line models when they were built. They weren't. They were simple, capable, moderately priced family boats. Built to be safe and sturdy, with pleasing lines and a few nice touches.

My only lament is that we don't see their likes being built any more. So few seem to value a boat with integrity. A boat that is graceful, well proportioned. A boat that speaks with a distinct and compelling voice.

Why do I toil away restoring my old boat? Why do I drive down to check on her when the weather turns rough? Its not because I'm worried about her meager value in dollar terms.

I do it because there is something enduring and traditional about her. I like the way she makes me feel gliding through the water. And I know that if I take care of her, she'll take care of me.

[commanderpete]

Here is a honey of a new boat being built


http://www.enasol.com/med_46.htm