Hiding from Tropical Storms

[Janice Collins]

Here's Wayward Star tied into the mangroves, after a threat of a storm . Sails off, ready to defend herself.




:cool:

[Mike Goodwin]

You should head down to Trinidad & Tobago , all the storms go North of them . It is also very cheap to stay there and the folks are real friendly .
I hope them mangrove roots are deep !

[Janice Collins]

Not ready to head down island yet.
And when I do. I don't know , from Greneda, I'm leaning towards Venezuela and then through the Panama Canal. A woman gotta have a dream.
But who knows which way the wind will blow....

Those mangroves have protected boats from the likes of Hurricane Hugo and Hurricane Marilyn, both of which devasted these islands.The branches and roots are very strong, though I would double the number of anchors off the bow and double the lines from the stern to the mangroves for a hurricane threat
I'm watching one more tropical wave between the coast of Africa and us, and if it doesn't develop, Wayward Star is out of there..

[Theis]

Janice:
Are you now in the U.S Virgins -i.e. is that picture of a spot in the Virgins? How do the mangroves protect against the hurricane surges, although apparently it does - or does it?

[Janice Collins]

This is in St. Thomas, Virgin Islands.
For Hurricane Marilyn, we had a 12 ft. surge. We left slack on all lines to compensate for that. Those mangroves are almost as tall as my mast. iN THE vIRGIN iSLANDS, the storm surges usually is between 5 and twelve feet. Now, if a surge of 25-35 ft. should occur, I guess that would be a bad scenario, one that hasn't occurred h ere thtat I know of.

The mangroves adequately break the wave action, also. What I worry about always are the other boats. Some come in last minute, don't tie up well....

People at their slips had major problems with the surge as they were then bouncing on top of the piers. And those in the boat yards didn't do well either, surge swept boats all over the yard.

A large number of boats were lost in each of those hurricanes.
You can say we were lucky. You prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

tHIS WASN'T MY FIRST CHOICE OF SPOTS THOUGH, SOMEBODY TOOK MY FAVORITE SPOT WHICH THE MANGROVES HAD A MOUNTAIN BEHIND IT INSTEAD OF WATER.
You SNOOZE YOU LOSE. wE'VE TIED UP IN BOTH AREAS AND DID WELL AT EACH.

[Theis]

Interesting. Do all the islands have Mangroves somewhere, or do you need to be lucky to be on one of the special islands when the storm approaches?

Do they intentionally sink boats to be recovered after the storm, or is that method considered old fashioned?

Is the surge level reasonably accurately forecast, or can the forecast be off by ten feet or more, for example - or on a localized basis be off? How certain can you be that 12 feet of slack is adequate?

[Mike Goodwin]

The surge depends on the catagory level of the storm and in which quadrant of the storm you will be when it passes . If they predict the track right and it does not change in strength , you can predict the surge . Also if they get the timing right as to when the storm will hit a high or low tide & what phase the moon is in .
In other words , " it's a crap shoot " for the most part .
Most , but not all , the islands have mangrove swamps and they are not all available to deep draft boats .

[Theis]

Obviously you have my curiosity peaked.

I frequently see all these boats up on shore or in pieces after a hurricane and wonder "why" - what would I do differently Why aren't the big ones taken out of the water and put on stands in a boat yard? If they can't get into the Mangrove swamps, what is the alternative other the skipper leaving the super yacht at anchor and attending a local church service? I assume boats would just be smashed being anywhere near a dock.

Up in these climes, when we have a surge/seiche, and the water rises several feet, as with a tsunami as well, the rise is often followed by a lull, where the water drops below the normal pool. In a hurricane, if the water goes up 12 feet, does it then drop commensurately after the storm passes, thereby leaving the mangroves (and the boats) high and dry and pounding against tree roots or other boats, until the surge returns to fill the wetland to its normal pool?

Signed
Midwestern Great Lakes Sailor who doesn't travel far from home

[Janice Collins]

I can only speak for the islands I have sailed to: Culebra(part of the Spanish Virgin Islands, Tortola (British Virgin Islands) and St. John, St. Thomas and St. Croix U.S. Virgin Islands).
All have what are called around here "Hurricane Holes" which consist of very secluded mangrove nooks and crannies, usually surrounded on most sideds by mountains . Mike was right...you need to have shallow drafts for most of these spots, some even I can't get into. And it is a crap shoot, but only after you have done everything conceivable to protect your vessel.

The surge rises then returns back to pre storm levels. You start out so your keel is over sand/mud, not mangrove roots, so when the surge drops, you're hopefully still over sand/mud, not the roots, if all your lines and anchors hold. It can and has set the vessel on a dock. and it can also cause very strong currents that put additional strain on all the anchoring gear. I have seen boats end up on the docks/pilings after the storm passsed. I've seen boats wrecked on the hard, I've seen them wrecked in the mangroves. Surge causes a lot of problems. If you don't leave a lot of slack in your lines for the surge, this can cause one of your lines to snap off. This storm surge is one of the most dangerous times in the storm. Forecastimg surge and storms I have found to be fairly accurate so far, usually predicting worse than what happens. Then again Hurrican Marilyn was predicted to be a mild Hurricane and it devastated St. Thomas. Also, we have here only about 1 foot difference between low and high tide, so we aren't adding on much height to the surge prediction.
One never knows what these storms will truly do until they do it. That's why I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And Tom was a great teacher.
There is a lot of literature that tells how to prepare one's vessel for a Hurricane. Of prime importance of course is to reduce windage, I strip her bare. Strong decks, strong cleats and chocks, and good chain , ample scope, Chafing gear is a MUST!!! A working automatic bilge pump...all necessary and then LUCK,LUCK, Luck!

I heard of a few people here that sink their dinghies , but I don't know of any bigger boats doing that.

After the active '95-'95 Hurricane season here, there was a great number of folks who sailed to Trinidad and Greneda to avoid these storms. There have been hurricanes that far south, albeit very rare. Below the 12th parallel is where your best hopes for avoidance of these hurricanes lie. Though so many people are going there, they say it has been very crowded.

You'd be surprised how many live aboards stay on their boats during hurricanes. And those that made it through had tales to tell!!!

And Mike said another good point: it depends what quadrant of the storm passes you, and if you have to go through that eye wall, well, its a rough ride. And Wayward Star has ridden it too many times. I know she deserves a medal of some sort.

[Theis]

Interesting. Thanks for the primer. We farm boys - you know.....

[Mike Goodwin]

I helped a friend salvage his 48' in Charleston after the big huricane that hammered them back around '90 . His boat was on the hard , mast out of the boat and he had '6' neat 2' square holes down the stbd side where the boat was pushed over on the jack stands and went right thru the hull .
This was a 30,000lb boat .
We thought taking the mast out and doubling the stands would do the trick .
Looks like the boat was lifted and dropped on her side .
6 months later she was better than new !

[Janice Collins]

Thats why the boat yard is jammed with boats for the Hurricane season. Feeling is if the boat gets damaged, what better place to be , in the boat yard , rather than under water. However, there is over a year's waiting list to haul out during this time.

[Theis]

As luck would have it, the most recent issue of Seaworthy, the Boat U.S. Marine Insurance an Damage Avoidance Report, arrived yesterday, and the headline article is "Northeasters, Hurricanes' First Cousins. It starts out "October 25" talking about a killer hurricane with damage estimated at $1.2 billion and three people losing their lives. Then it goes to December 12 and comments about a winter storm approaching the East Coast. That storm (a Northeaster, a.k.a. an extratropical cyclone) pounded 1,200 miles of coastline, with damage estimated at 1 billion and six lives lost. It is an interesting article

There is also, in that issue an extensive article about minimizing line chafe in a storm, the importance of anti-chafing gear, particularly where a line passes through a chock. The article references a Practical Sailor article in the January 15th issue of Practical Sailor. You might be able to get a copy of Seaworthy, or subscribe to it by calling Gwen Palmer, 800-262-8082, ext 3276 at Boat US. (That is the number given in the magazine). It is a worthwhile article.

Incidentally, does anyone insure boats down ther against hurricane damage for less than an inheritance, or does everyone take their chances?

Lastly, one of the events that convinced me to restore my Ariel (which had been sunk, frozen in ice, and had holes in the deck) was an afternoon out on a larger sailboat in St. Croix. The boat had been broken in half and totaled in a hurricane. The current owner bought the remains for almost nothing, and put the two halves together. No one would have ever known the troubles that boat had seen. I knew then what could be done with dedication and effort.

[Janice Collins]

I know personally only one boater that has insurance, the rest take their chances claiming their heavy anchoring gear is their insurance. Then again, most the boaties I know don't have fancy yachts and a lot of $$$.
I'm sure the "other half" insure their investments.

After all the hurricanes this area had in "95 and "96 it was very difficult to even get insured and extremely pricey, the majority of companies only insuring if you brought your boat south of or to 12 degrees latitude, another reason why there has been a big increase in migratory activity to Grenada and Trinidad.

But since the lack of major storms in recent years, here, this problem of difficulty insuring seems to be lessening.

[Theis]

Thanks. I guess I won't retire down there after all. It would seem strange to have to tell friends that I live in the Virgin Islands, but when the weather turns I go south for several months. That line works up here, but it sounds phony if you live down there.

Its not that easy getting insurance on old boats up here (West Insurance has bowed out of that market at last report), and when you do, it is for a fraction of the value of the boat and equipment - and all we have to contend with here is Lake Michigan, frost, thurnderstorms, waterspouts, tornados, - nothing like what you guys and gals face down there - cool breezes, forecastable weather, friendly showers, trade winds, and so forth.

[Janice Collins]

A lot of boaters go south for the season, but many of course live here year round on or off the boat.

I wouldn't go south every year either, however I want to Once to check out all the islands.

Like I said, though we've had close calls requiring one to tie up the boat, we haven't had much in the way of direct hits for a long time. Knock on wood.

tHOUGH i HAVN'T SAILED ANYWHERE ELSE, i CAN'T IMAGINE BETTER SAILING GROUNDS THAN THE vIRGIN iSLANDS.

[Theis]

You can't be far off the mark because there is where everyone from here winds up going. It is too much like work up here (although it is beautiful, and the fresh water swiming - oh la la - and the sand dunes and beaches - no sharks or other dangerous ouches).

[Janice Collins]

I'm from the Northeast, and I've canoed on lakes and rivers and always loved the water where ever I go. Would love to have the experience to sail somewhere different.

I bet lake sailing is beautiful, I enjoed reading of your travels, howwever I was never able to download the photos, which I know would have added to the enjoyment.

When I would go on canoing in the Adirondacks, in NY, we would camp at night and then hike and go foraging for mushrooms, and have them for supper. We would find chanterelles, morels, chicken of the woods etc. To tell you the truth, that's what I miss most living down here. The only mushrooms easily found here are the Magic Mushrooms. That's what is served in the tea at the Full Moon Parties on Tortola, BVI's.....

I agree that swimming in a fresh water lake is wonderful, though quite exhilerating. the water here now is about 85 degrees. You become so spoiled here, in the winter, when it dips down to the mid -high 70's some of us need wetsuits to go snorkling. that's sick huh?