Commander #38

[C38]

Hello Everyone - I am officially the proud new owner of Commander #38! I am new to the forum and wanted to introduce myself and my boat. I do not know too much about her history, as I am atleast the 3rd owner, she has been well cared for, but is certainly showing signs of her age (as most boats of this era do, a few soft spots, etc...). This spring I had purchased a 1968 Bristol Corinthian that needed some work and after about 2 months of weekend work one her (rebuilt interior, new bottom paint, general cleanup) I have been sailing her almost everyday with my girlfriend, and it has been great. However, I have come to the conclusion that she is a bit small for my purposes and needed to upgrade. When I saw an add for this boat - http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/18734 - I jumped on it.

I will be sailing her from Orient, Long Island to New Suffolk, Long Island on Saturday.

Here she is:
6881

I am greatly looking forward to reading and participating in this group. Just browsing through the forum it is amazing to see the amount of knowledge and commitment many of you have. I hope I can bring the same to our new boat and get her in better condition then i found her!

[Tony G]

Mike,

Congratulations! And welcome aboard. You seem to be heading in a direction with a purpose. Two Albergs in less than a year and sailing everyday with your girlfriend. Man, I wish I'd had my poop in a group at 24 years old!

speaking for all left-handed peeps out there, we love pictures!

[C38]

Thanks Tony,

Yeah my fam always had a sailboat growing up, they sold it a while back and I have been dreaming of buying my own boat ever since... Finally made it happen this summer and I couldnt be having a better time. I am looking forward to taking my new boat on some more extended cruising (block island/marthas vineyard/etc...).

I will definitely post more photos after this weekend when I sail her to her new home.

[Rico]

Hey Mike - Congratulations! You are making the best investment of your life! (definitely not too much of an exageration!)

Your Commander will serve you and your girlfriend well. I find that it is the perfect boat for weekending...
What is that saying?? The perfect boat dines 6 sails 4 and sleeps 2 - or something along those lines???
Alberg's lovely Commander certainly fits the bill...

I've spent up to a couple of weeks on mine and although it is not a condo, it suits the almost-minimalist very nicely. It is quite comfortable!

I'm sure that with a bit of work and she'll be better than the great majority of today's brand new boats.

Keep us posted on the progress on the acquisition, the work you do on her, and especially the sailing adventures!

Welcome to the board!

[Commander227]

What a pretty lady!
Looks like you got a real good deal.
Have fun with her and welcome.
Mike
C227

[C38]

Thanks!

Only time will tell if she was a good deal or not.... For 2 grand its hard to go wrong! And I will most likely be ten times more satisfied with my boat as well, after putting in the work myself!

[C38]

Luckily, the boat is fairly close to my current home port. The trip will be great for getting to know her a little better and what, if anything she needs immediately. It is about a 5 to 6 hour sail from the Orient Yacht Club to New Suffolk.

Here is basically the route. I have done this trip before, but not on my own boat.
6912

Hopefully nothing falls off!

[Rico]

VERY, Very nice looking route. Great day sail... I'd ask to join you, but I am a bit far away... Please take a few pictures so that we can have a look at those waters!

Remember; keep the boat in the water and the water out of the boat...

Make sure you have everything as buttoned-up and ship shape as you can before setting off... The ounce of prevention concept... Do you have a handheld VHF? If not you might borrow one for the trp?

Just for kicks I'd ask the current owner to deliver her for you... - the tone of his answer might indicate the state of things!
If he is forthcoming and a capable sailor I'd ask about the issues that most need attention before you take her away... He might have good insight.

I am looking forward to the weekend myself. We have a good group of people at a very hard to get campsite on Angel Island. We'll be taking the Mephisto Cat and spending the Weekend on a mooring!

See you on the other side! :)

[C38]

Rico, Have a great time this weekend!

Thanks for the advice :) - I do have a handheld vhf/life preservers/air horn... Also, a crew of 4

Happy Sailing! Will definitely post photos of the shake-down trip.

[C38]

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c1.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c2.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c3.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c4.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c5.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c6.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c7.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c8.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c9.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c10.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c11.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c12.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c13.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c14.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/c15.jpg

[C38]

Hi Everyone, Here are a few photos from the trip. Everything went great except the mainsail tore about 4 inches very close to the top of the sail about 3 quarters into the trip. At which point I took down the main and sailed back with just the genoa. I suppose it coul have been worse! Really really beautiful day overall and she is now sitting in her new home in New Suffolk. Very busy but wanted to put up some photos.

http://everittstudios.com/commander/t2.jpg
Motor-sailing past a fleet of sunfish entering Greenport Harbor

http://everittstudios.com/commander/t4.jpg

http://everittstudios.com/commander/t5.jpg
Finally Sailing!

http://everittstudios.com/commander/t6.jpg

[Tony G]

Very nice, Captain. You're off to a great start.

[C38]

Thanks!

Been pretty busy sailing and working lately... Right now trying to enjoy the last few days of summer and get in as much sailing as possible.

The main projects that I will be undertaking at some point are focused around the deck and deck hardware. There is a soft area in the foredeck, so re-coring that area will be in order. Also removing the stanchions for the lifelines and either replacing them or getting rid of them entirely (they are not in the greatest shape). And then of course when thats all done, sanding and re-painting the deck. It's a lot of work, especially for someone with no experience, but it greatly helps to have such a large wealth of knowledge on this forum of people who have or are doing the same projects.

[C38]

My co-worker was able to snap some shots while we were out there.

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un1.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un2.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un3.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un4.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un5.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un6.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un7.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un8.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un9.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un10.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un11.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un12.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un13.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un14.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un15.jpg

http://www.everittstudios.com/commander/un17.jpg

Hope you all enjoy!

[Tony G]

...co worker... It's Tuesday, Michael. Co-worker? Just kidding.

Seriously, that is a fantastic photo layout. It looks so much better than what I see looking outside here.

[C38]

Perks of working 5minutes from where I keep the boat! :)
I try to get down there at least once a day, don't always have time to go for a sail of course, but atleast just puts around...

[Lucky Dawg]

Great pictures. Man, the Commander enhances beautiful scenery, no? Pictures of your own boat under sail is a real treat. NICE.

[C38]

A Very nice treat! And actually the photos of your commander were what inspired me.

[C38]

Was able to use one of the photos my friend took for a local non-profit invitation design.
newsuffolkwaterfront.org/downloads/thanks-invite2010.pdf (http://www.newsuffolkwaterfront.org/downloads/thanks-invite2010.pdf)

[Ariel 109]

Very nice work Michael. Such a great looking boat. Are you a graphic designer?

[C38]

Thanks! Yes my day job is a graphic designer at a web firm, it's nice to be able to design for print now and then...

[C38]

Safe and sound out of the water... I was pleasantly surprised by the condition of the hull since the previous owner had barely used it for the 2 months it was in the water before I got her, not nearly as many barnacles as I thought I would find. Now its time to begin thinking about spring repairs and upgrades.

[Chance]

Mike,
Excellent photo spread of your Commander out plying the waters. Very, very nice. Hey, I was looking over how you have your jib sheet leads and noticed that the sheet car seems a bit too far aft for the blade your using. Doyle, your sailmaker placed a sheet angle reference line that radiates from the clew of the jib. From the sailmaker's expertise, it is this line that ideally should continue with your sheet down to the turning block on your deck or toe rail and then the sheet would run aft. Also, it appears your jib sheet leads directly to the primary winches? This can be very problematic in that it creates an ideal situation for "winch override". Have you experienced this? All winches are designed with a sheet lead angle of approach to the drum, somewhere in the vicinity of 5-15 degrees, with the sheet rising up to meet the drum rather than straight at it or worse, from an angle higher than the base of the winch itself. I'm no expert, but just wanted to share what I have learned.
Again, thanks for the great quality photos. Also, it would definately appear that she is in exceptional shape and you got a great deal!

[C38]

Chance,
haha, I was wondering when someone would notice this ;)
All these photos were taken within about 15 minutes of sailing, and soon afterwards I realized I forgot to run the jib sheets through the blocks, which i fixed. Was wondering when someone would call me out on it!

Thanks, she is in fairly good shape, though their is a soft spot on the fore deck that was caused by not properly embedding hardware. This will be the largest repair I need to accomplish before she goes back in the water. Not looking forward to it as I am a little nervous of destroying her irrecoverably... Luckily I have found many sources (including here) of people who have done the same repair and document in detail, so I have plenty of directions/guidlines to follow me through it.

[Chance]

Mike,
Good evening, and thanks for the clarification. Come to think of it, you must have been tickled pink to be able to purchase a commander in "sailable" condition. This past March / April I brought down Commander #269 from St. Michaels, MD to the Albemarle Sound in NC, and that transit, do mostly in part to the weather, took me nine days. Even though it was very stressing at times, I remember how excited I was when actually underway with the last mooring line on board.

As for soft core issues. All that stuff is easily fixable. The worst thing one could do is "nothing", for as you most likely know, ignoring a known problem will only allow it to propagate. I use the term "easily" because although it is a farely straight forward job, it still is just that a "job" with some serious labor involved, depending on the magnitude of the water intrusion.

Have a great Thanks Giving.

[C38]

Chance,

Thanks for the advice! Your progress on Ceili has been very inspiring, and I hope I can produce something even remotely close to the quality of work you have done.

I am definitely afraid I will have to recore the entire deck, but like you said, doing anything is better then nothing. And if it has to be done, it has to be done.

Hope you had a great thanksgiving!

[Chance]

Mike,
Thanks for the kind words. Actually it's folks like you and so many others that assist in keeping me to stay motivated. To see you out sailing is something I long for with Ceili. Someday.

As for recoring: for me, It was the initial getting over the notion of having to use a circular saw to remove the outer skin and/or inner skin as I have done it from both sides. You may be able to re-use your outer skin during the recoring, if so, that will save you some money in glass and resin layup. You'll have to make an assessment as to the condition of it once removed. Epoxy, glass and associated supplies you will go through add up quickly in expenses, but...... doing it yourself will save you bundles of money and will enhance your bond with your commander, not to mention providing much satisfaction.

[C38]

Still debating whether I will attack this project from above or below, attacking from below would make the deck repainting process easier and not an immediate necessity once the repair is complete. On the other hand it will not be so comfortable or easy to lay up fiberglass from below deck. I still have plenty of time to think it over though since I will not be starting this project until the spring...

The way you seem to be moving so quickly with Ceili, I am sure you'll be on the water in no time! ;-)

[Chance]

Mike,
I strongly encourage recoring from the outside. I have done limited recoring from the inside, working upside down, and it is a royal pain. Working with gravity in your favor is the way to go. Plus, it's the only way to go for working large areas like the fordeck area with can be broken into two sections, port and starbooard of the plywood core running amidship. The side decks cannot be recored from the inside, at least not properly.

As for painting the repair, that is minor considering the work involved to get back to that phase.

You must be kidding, I started working on Ceili in November of 2008. It's been two years and I'm still at it. Granted, I don't work on her full time, yet still she gets at least 8 hours of my time weekly. I have done much, but she's still not done.

[C38]

Thanks for the advice Chance! I will definitely re-core from the outside.

On another note, I have finally come up with a name for my Commander. Her name will be Susie Q 2 (my first boat was named Susie Q after the CCR song of the same name). I liked the name so much that I am using it again, mainly because she feels practically the same as my last boat (Bristol Corinthian), just bigger. And of course, since I am a designer by trade, I have a lot of fun developing the graphics for the name. (photo attached)

Can't wait to get out sailing this year! Just have to re-paint the bottom and then I will be dropping her in hopefully by early june.

[Ariel 109]

Nice design Michael, like the font! The Q2 is really great. Maybe I can pay or trade you to design the S-Boat's lettering someday.

Ben

[C38]

Thanks Ben! I'd definitely be interested in designing the s-boat lettering, just tell me when!

[Chance]

Michael,
Okay, give us an update! How has sailing been for you this year? What actions did you perform on your Commander when you hauled her?

[C38]

After much deliberation I have decided to send my commander to Tim Lackey ( of http://lackeysailing.com/ ) for a recore and deck re-painting. As well as a few other repairs and restorations.

Firstly, Since last season the deck rot has spread and I did not feel it was safe to put it back in the water, atleast until the core is replaced.
And Secondly, I recently started a new job which is much more demanding of my time which means I do not have the time to work on the boat like I used to.

[Chance]

Michael,
Thanks for the update! Your beloved Commander will be in supreme hands, having it taken care of by non other than Tim Lackey. Wow!!
I have admired much of his work / tallent and look forward to you sharing the results with us.

When is your Commander being transported to his property up in Maine?
Will you be going there to personnally met with him and discuss restoration details, or will you be doing it via the web, phone, etc?

When do you expect him to commence the work?

Keep us posted, and thanks again.

[C38]

Chance,

Thanks! Yes, I couldnt think of a more talented individual to trust my boat with!

As of right now we have not discussed in detail what/when/how the process will unfold. I would like to go up during the early phases of the project but we will see as the time gets closer.

Right now he has penned me in his schedule for the end of the 2012 sailing season! (which was his next available time!). So I have plenty of time to plan, discuss, and finalize the exact scope of the work and what needs to be done. For now I will be spending some time on a few smaller projects and just preparing her for the big move.

I will definitely keep everyone on this forum updated with the progress!

[C38]

Made this in Photoshop for fun. Thought I would share! It's not perfectly traced, but I think it came out alright.

View Larger Version Here: http://www.michaeleveritt.com/img/susieq.png

http://www.michaeleveritt.com/img/susieq_sm.png

[kegan]

Hey Mike,

Nice Photoshop work! I tried to send you an email through this board. Would you let me know if you get it?

-Kegan

[Rico]

Great logo above! That will look amazing on the transom. Nice & readable too...

[Above drawing]
Beautiful!
Are you taking requests for custom Colors? Hint, hint...

[C38]

Thanks guys!

@ Rico - I could very easily do that! what color/combo would you like to see?

@ Kegan - Got your email, small world! I replied via email...

[Commander 147]

Mike

I think you did a really nice job. Are planning on framing it and hanging it in your office?

Maybe you could help me finally decide on the final paint colors for Destiny. If it's not too much trouble that is. I will shoot you an e-mail through the board please let me know if your get it.

[Rico]

Awesome!

How about a Gray hull, red waterline stripe, & red Commander logo on mast... just like The Mephisto Cat!
As seen here: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1552-Commander-155-Mephisto-Cat

And if iy is not too much trouble - without the handrails on the cabintop....
Thanks!

[ebb]

Certainly can agree that the long maybe TOO traditional handrails have an asethetic issue.

First to mind comes painting the rails same color as the cabin.
BUT that style of rail cries out, VARNISH ME - and might look odd if painted.

That rail is a busy design and maybe just too much for that sleek unencumbered look
where the Commander looks most trim & spiffy.


Didn't Alberg design a flat rail on pedestal feet for Cape Dory's?

Such a rail could be painted out and dissappeared on the curve of the cabin.
It could be designed just tall enough not to catch a curled finger when grabbed.
Imco the rail is an important safety feature that has to be there in some form.

Better yet, rails curved for grabbing, could be designed that have no peek-a-boo openings.
They could dissappear all together because they are featureless.
And better for bare feet bearing agaunst them when working on the roof.
'T' rails with no scuppers, like the Cape Dory's, would be easy to make and also easy on the toes.
(Lake Commanders with the new sheer bowsprit would imco look especially trim & stretched with "disappeared rails.")

As with awkward additions to A.'s sweet lines, for instance a dodger...if you darken the dodger color
it will tend to be less of a feature. Painting 'flat' rails darker, perhaps gray on the white top, may de-emphasize them even further
as the eye will more likely catch Alberg's pure curve of the cabin.

Rails make the cabin top a safer place to sit and stand, so I wouldn't disappear them altogether.

[C38]

Awesome!

How about a Gray hull, red waterline stripe, & red Commander logo on mast... just like The Mephisto Cat!
As seen here: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1552-Commander-155-Mephisto-Cat

And if iy is not too much trouble - without the handrails on the cabintop....
Thanks!

Rico, had some time today to whip this up for you.

Mephisto Cat!
8220
Hi Res version here - http://www.everittstudios.com/img/mc_lg.png

ebb - I agree about the rails - something a bit more low profile would help to keep the clean lines of the commander in particular.

[Rico]

I just saw this! How awesome - Great rendering. Thanks so much!
- What a pretty boat!!! :cool:

[ebb]

Curmudeonery thinks it may be the angle of the pic BUT
Commanders have no curve to their sheer.

Photos invaribly show a georgeous curve.
But it is Alberg's perfectly shaped hull and symmetry of deck that causes the illusion.
Nobody else can do it.
It's extraordinary.
Never seen another straight sheer look anywhere near as alive and sexy.

For contrast and confirmation there is a photoshop (oval ports) on a live Commander by Frenna,
post#164 (last page) on the Daysailor Craze thread.

[ebb]

Sorry to see Suzie Q go!
Marriages and Morgages can't be denied.
It was great to be here and see her sail
and be part of the energy Your Commander
benefited so much from.

Bet you'll be looking for her again in a few years
when there could be a new little sailor or two who
need to go sailing in such a priceless boat.

[C38]

Well, 4 years went fast... Never did end up selling, how could I...

A lot has happened, but i'm finally ready to get her back in the water. Will be starting a recore of the foredeck, side decks, and parts of the cabin top immediately.

The Plan
- Recore (areas specified above)
- Repaint decks
- Re bed all deck hardware
- new bottom paint
- finish brightwork
- and other misc. projects

The Goal
- Having her in the water at some point next season. (More of a reach goal, but i think possible...)

Progress So Far:
- Removed all the hardware and brightwork from the decks.

Next Step
- Remove top skin of deck from recore areas and scrape out rotten core.

------------------

Will be posting progress and asking questions of you talented folks regularly.

First question - the foredeck's bottom skin has a tear (see photo) where it looks like one of the previous owners had repaired the deck from the bottom. I'm guessing the tear was due to pressure on the deck from above, and a not so great adhesion of whatever materials used for the repair. My question is, do I repair this first, before removing the top skin? or, would it make more sense to repair from above after I carefully remove the core from the area?

[Bisquit]

What a pretty boat. Great shots

[ebb]

Mike, Screwed up my mast rehab, have to remove moisture cure urethane and failed WR-LPU.

Can't deal with grinding stuff off anymore. Just stumbled onto this stuff.

Just ordered this stripper from Rockler Woodworking & Hardware, 1-800-279-4441

Soy-Gel TM Paint and Urethane Remover
non-toxic , low VOC, work without gloves, without particle mask, bio-degradable,
get it on yer hands no burn. Best use for soy beans I've ever seen!
Wouldn't it be great if this is as fantastic as it sounds.

Maybe you can get it to work overhead in the boat -- hold it on with seranwrap..

Looks like the best stripper ever!
Must be fairly new. Home internet site useless.
There's a few YouTubes, gotta check it out!

They have another, haven't researched it but there is an extensive YouTube
showing bottom paint being removed from a 27footer, called Soy Stripper,
Must be the same maker.

Good luck!

[mbd]

Ebb, your soy stripper sounded familiar and something I thought Capt. Kurt of Ariel #422 used. I didn't find that, but instead he use a "citrus stripper" and gave his usual thorough pictorial how-to and review of the product starting at post #215 of his gallery thread: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?978-The-album-of-Ariel-422&p=18963#post18963
PS. It still seems like he used the soy product - perhaps on his bottom? (Boat, that is... )
PSS. Welcome back Michael!

[ebb]

Soy-Gel
is not Citrus. The citrus requires a moonsuit and usual protective paraphernalia.

Soy-gel you can work in your bathing suit. NON - TOXIC. I wouldn't eat it, though!


Just thinking, can't imagine grinding the paint off on the underside of the forepeak,
but, if you can reach in there with a very wet roller and lay on an 1/8" coat...
a 4" bristle brush might be easier...
then slap on some seranwrap (slows evaporation and creates surface tension)
Come back later (accounts vary and have to take into account the age of the paint),
and pull the plastic into a pail. And then I imagine, paper towels could be used to
grab & scoop the gel. Then a sponge/scotchbrite pad to clean the surface with water.
Well, of course, I can see using a Tyvek suit with a hood to keep yer hair parted...

Viewing video: the Soy-Gel, after it has done its magic, seems to reduce the paint to
gel, or a very similar material. making it simple to scoop/wipe the wet stuff away. imco

That seems fairly easy, and if the stuff works as seen, a safe and sane way to remove
paint. I'm sure there's a learning curve... as you see on the amazon comments for this
product, there are a few cretans who don't get it. But there are others who recogonize
what a godsend this stripper really is! ...If it is as they say. I'm a week out.
Nobody local carries this stuff.

[C38]

Ebb, thanks for the tip, it certainly sounds better than grinding paint and fiberglass for hours on end.

I will be sure to post results if I use it!

[joeniver]

Other commander 38. Can not post in my account. Trying another one.
Asking what do I finish marine plywood with to be part of the hatch on my 38