Name and logo trim piece.

[EckiePrater]

Hello list,
Where could I get for my Ariel, the Pearson logo and Ariel name plate that is mounted on the coaming wood sides?
Thanks,
Eckie Prater
Hull number 304
Oklahoma City

eckieprater@earthlink.net

[Brent]

Not exactly sure of what you speak of (probably because #66 has no such thing on her coamings), but I do know that you can get the Pearson builder's plate, in bronze, from Bristol Bronze (www.bristolbronze.com).

Just do a search for "pearson" and it will come up, or else look under "B" in the online catalog.

You will have to get your hull number engraved on it.

[Mike Goodwin]

Here are the ones for the Commander from #105;

[Mike Goodwin]

This looks like and original stem fitting also on #105

[Bill]

Bristol Bronze sells a copy of the Pearson oval number plate in bronze (natch) for about $40. The other castings are not available unless someone is willing to loan one for a pattern.

[Bill]

Kent Davis (Ariel # 376) worked with Bristol Bronze and come up with a bronze reproduction of the Ariel logo plate that Pearson affixed to the outside of the cockpit coamings. Here are a couple of photos of it. The first is of new logo plate affixed to Kent?s boat

[Bill]

This photo is of the two logo plates taken together:

[Bill]

Here is the information you will need if you want to purchase a set of logo plates for your Ariel:

Bristol Bronze
PO Box 101
Tiverton, RI 02878

BB4902 Ariel Logo Plate $55.00 ea

2@$55 = $110.00
S&H = 11.00

Total = $121.00

On Line Ordering with a credit card is available at:

http://www.bristolbronze.com/order_form.htm

[Bill]

We now need someone with a good Commander logo plate to contact Bristol Bronze and have it duplicated. Let me know if you have one and are interested.

[Theis]

Are there any thoughts about how to turn the Bristol Bronze casting into the original Ariel plate? As I recall the original was chrome with a blue piece in the center.

I recognize that you could get the Bristol Bronze pieces chromed ($$$$$), but what about a silver paint, and a blue paint (assuming it was blue. Maybe it was white). Does anyone have an example of what the original looked like as to a coloring scheme?

[Bill]

It seems to me that Pearson did not use paint. More than likely it was porcelain. Like the number plate.

[Theis]

Bill: I think the plate was made with a process called silk screening. It leaves a slightly raised surface. They can use epoxy paint for the purpose (or any of a variety of specially designed paints) . It does look like "porcelain" but it most likely is a painted surface. To the best of my knowledge, generic silk screening is only suitable for flat surfaces. Today (I don't think the technology was available then), powdered metal may also be an alternative coating).

On the original Ariel casting, if they did chrome it, and the area to be colored is flat, that area could have been silk screened (You can silk screen over chrome as I recall).

All this is fine if you are making 1,000 peices. But for two, conventional paint may be the only alternative. Do you recall or can you find out what the original colors were, and where? Are there any metal finishing experts in the crowd?

[Hull376]

Bristol Bronze told me that most of the original Pearson logo's were made of something called Pot Metal, which I inferred was cheap. They chromed over it (you can see remaining chrome on the original plate in the photo a couple of posts above). Bristol said that these plates deteriorated fairly rapidlyand are very brittle. Mine was in the Great Lakes for all but the last 8 years, so lasted pretty well. However, I don't recall, even as a kid, seeing the blue or white enamel or paint colors you mentioned, Theis. Not to say they weren't there earlier, but by 1971 or so, when my dad bought our boat, the colors were already gone, if they existed. Doesn't seem plausible that a hard finish would have disappeared that quickly--- paint could have.

[Bill]

The "pot metal" was probably the zinc stuff you find in inexpensive fittings for power boats.

Peter, go for chrome and forget the colors. :p

[Theis]

In the picture a few bits above, it does look like the parallelogram flag is a different color/not chromed, but that the finish has worn off. My recollection is that there was a highlight color in that flag

If the group conclusion was that there were no colors, maybe I'll paint the logo to go along with the color pattern of my halyards so they all blend: pink, periwinkle, mauve and chartreuse.

[Tony G]

Theis
The Pearson logo was long gone from 113 when we picked her up, however the number plate(the oval piece at the aft of the cockpit)definitely has SOME blue left on it. So if everyone one starts telling you that you're making it up I'm on your side.
As a former screen printer I'm willing to guess that the color was dropped in by hand or stamped on but not screened prior to baking. You're right, there has been significant changes in that industry in the last twenty years.

[Hull376]

Peter T.,

The coloration difference you see on the flag on the "old" casting is due to the fact that I gave Bristol Bronze liberty to buff out surface pits in the chrome before they made the casting pattern. However, there is an "etched" finish to parts of the original casting, around the flag, for example. But can't tell if it was just for decorative contrast, or if something was ever applied to it. Maybe I should take the thing down to the Houston Museum of Nautical Antiquities (you know we have sooooo many old things here in Houston, ha!) and see if they can do an electron scan or flourescence testing to see what the original piece looked like.

[Theis]

There must be an easier way, don't you think? Or do you have the last remaining original in the whole wide world (a.k.a. www).

[Theis]

Ta Da!!!!

The answer is out. The plaque was chromed, and the inside of the flag was painted BLUE. Who would have guessed that? Apparently, according to Rudy Knickerson, on later models the nameplate was a decal type thing. He is sending me a couple which, when I receive them, I will post.

I am trying to get some prices on the chroming. Everyone says it is not too expensive. But, getting around a minimum order is the issue. A per piece price of $10.00 does me no good if the minimum chroming order is $100.

[Bill]

Get a batch price and we'll all send you ours for plating:)

[Theis]

I'll do that. Good idea. Maybe we can get his next batch plated for him at the same time (That would be ten of them).

[mrgnstrn]

if, like me, you are going to have to buy two new ones anyway, what advantage is chroming the pretty bronze?

i think the picture with the nice bronze logo on that pretty mahogany looks great.

does chrome put up with the elements better than new bronze?

-km#3

[commanderpete]

That bronze sure does look great. Probably turn dark or green though.

Maybe a coat of lacquer?

Any Commander owner with a logo ready to step forward and get the process going for us?

I'm dying with envy here.

[Bill]

We have a request in to Commander #105 to see if they are interested in submitting their logo plate to Bristol Bronze.

[Mike Goodwin]

There is a product called Incralac by Stanchem in CT , that is a protective coating for brass and bronze. If you have ever been to the Mariners Museum in Newport News Va. , their huge propeller at the grounds entrance is coated with this and it lasts for 5 years minimum , costs @$25 per qt .
Regular lacquer doesn't hold up worth a rat's potuttie .

[Mike Goodwin]

Stanchem , East Berlin, CT., Phone: 860/828.0571

There is well over 30 years of use and research in the coating of exterior bronze with this product .
We tried it all and is the only thing that works for long , it is a full Mil-Spec material , developed for the Navy .

[Theis]

Mike:

"Rat's pottutie" is a sailing term I have not come across before? Could you describe it in greater detail or post a picture? Thanks.

Signed:

Curious

[Mike Goodwin]

The rat's potuttie ( po-two-tee ) is a painter's term ,it would be a 'rat's ass' in the nautical vernacular . For a visual image , picture Osama with a hairless tail in place of his nose .

[Robert Lemasters]

I have had the Commander name plates re-chromed sinse Mike photographed them(see above). Mike stopped by and asked if I would send them off for reproduction in bronze. This is a very good idea and I will do it soon as I can. The pot metal that they are made of gives off a gas for years after the casting that causes pitting even if they are kept in a box and never exposed to the envirionment. The re-chromed pot metal will only last so long before it starts to pit again, the bronze re-casts should last a very long time.:D

[Theis]

I have received a nominal quote (the place has not seen the actual part) to have the nameplate chromed. The process would first coat the bronze with copper, then zinc, and finally chrome. This is what Bristol Bronze recommended.

The price for four would be within their minimum of $50.00 ($12.50 each). If we get six (3 sets) the price would go down to $10.00 each. Is anyone interested at this price?

[Janice Collins]

I'm interested.

[Steve Guza]

I'm interested

[mrgnstrn]

ok, i will round out the set, i'm in for $10/each on the chrome.
as long as i can have the replica builders plate that i'm gonna get shipped with it.
should it be chromed as well?
-km#3

[Theis]

The builders plate, located at the end of the cockpit, is aluminum, as I recall, and need not be chromed. The original certainly wasn't.

[Bogle]

My commander name plate is bronze, original and does not appear to have ever been plated. We have #92.

I'm holding out for the Commander emblems. A guy in Arlington TX was going to see about having some made from pot metal. I'll try to contact him and see what he came up with. His commander emblem was in about the same shape as mine, but not quite as pitted. Goodwin's looks better.

[Theis]

I have a question for someone that knows about metals.

The original nameplate was potmetal, and did not have the gloss of chrome as I recall. My recollection was that it looked more aluminumish.

So the question is whether it would be better to plate the nameplates with zinc or nickel rather than chrome if I wanted to have a nameplate looking more like the original. Any other suggestions or comments?

[jwbass]

I will contact the brass works and offer my Commander Emblems. The pics are posted way down in the thread. They are a little deteriorated, but hopefully they will work. I'll report back. Thanks to David Bogle for alerting me.

Jim (Commander Hull # 62)

[Bogle]

Jim,
Goodwin's commander emblem has already been sent to Bristol Bronze. I think his photo, early in this thread, appears to show his will take less work than yours. That's per my recollection of your emblem condition (which was slightly better than mine.)

[Bill]

Pearson used bronze, oval plates on which it stamped the hull numbers. During the Ariel, Commander, Vanguard years the plates were chrome plated and a blue enamel added to form a background for the flag and Pearson name. In later years, the plates may not have been chromed, but I'm not sure of that.

[Hull376]

Peter T,

Took a close up of the "A" on the plate I had sent off to make the copies. You can see that it still has chrome on it, except where they ground off some of the surface pits. Was shiny before I sent it off, so buffing didn't cause the shine. Black around edges is from the pattern mold. This is off 376, so its one of the late model boats (last 15% made). Don't know if they changed the plates over time-- might have.

[Theis]

Kent:

That is the way I recall they looked. Roger at Bristol Bronze was around the Pierson yard in the time frame of the Ariel. He said that the potmetal nameplate was originally very bright chrome, but faded almost immediately on leaving the yard.

He suggested a matte chrome finish would come close to duplicating the original - and that is what we will be having done.

[jwbass]

I have been in contact with Bristol Bronze and they can reproduce the emblem in a silicon bronze casting. However, the more, the cheaper. So, how many folks would like them, subject, of course, to a price quote? Also, I have a set that I can send to Bristol for the mold, but mine have some deterioration. Does anyone have the emblems that are not too badly deteriorated? I have attached photos of the ones that I have.

[Bill]

Jim,

Better check with BB again, but I believe another Commander owner (Goodwin?) is sending them a plate to use as a pattern. See the earlier posts.

[Mike Goodwin]

This is the copy being sent to Bristol for dupes .
It is off Commander #105 belonging to Robert Lemasters.

[Bogle]

I think the Association should get a quantity made and then sell them. I certiainly am interested (two sets please- one for the boat and one for my coffin ;-), but how will we know who else is? If the Association posts the availability in the newsletter and on the web home page the takers will start to trickle in. Just a thought.

I don't know how the weatherstripping procurement process went, but the final cost seemed high. I would want to hold the costs down as much as possible. Chrome plating could be an option, but that's what they need in my opinion, to be "as original" and to show up against the dark varnished mahogany.

[Bill]

I think the Association will want to leave the plates to Bristol Bronze, and as you note, indicate their availabilty in the newsletter and here on the Web. Like window frames and opening ports, we are not financially able to do the deal. Weatherstripping and burgees, however, are within our financial capabilities:)

At present, I believe BB's first run of Ariel plates is sold out (although my set has yet to arrive). Peter Theis has done the leg work for several of us and arranged for chroming at a plater near by (Michigan?). According to BB, the original plates, though chromed, very quickly took on a slightly matt finish, so that is the way Peter plans to go. He will probably have more to say on this. :D

[Bogle]

Thanks, Bill. Should each of us, then, contact Bristol Bronze individually to give them an idea of the number to fabricate? I just am not clear as to how we should proceed. Thanks again.

[Bill]

For the Ariel plate, I think that's the best way. I would use the order information posted earlier (includes the stock #)

For Commanders, please wait until we learn that BB has created a pattern and there is a stock #. We will post the information as soon as it becomes available. As noted before, I think the price should be the same for both plates, except that since the Commander has a longer name - it might add a couple of bucks :)

[Theis]

Purchasing the Ariel nameplate and having it chromed. I am opening a new thread "Purchasing and Chroming Ariel Nameplate"

[Bill]

I was at MAIKAI'I today and found that the original name plate mounting holes in the coamings are about a half an inch from the new winch bases that were installed last year :( Guess my plates will have to be installed forward of their original Pearson location.

And the "mystery" holes in the coamings are now explained :)

[Theis]

Bill:

Could you please get dimensions on where the original plates were mounted. I don't have a clue and would like to locate them as close as possible to Pearson' original location.

Peter

[Bill]

Sure. Next time at at the boat. Meantime, maybe someone else can provide the measurements of where their plates were located.

[Theis]

Bill

I assure you there is no hurry. The winds were 60 mph on the Lake yesterday, the shore covered with ice. Snow is predicted today. I won't be needing them for a while. Take your time and get them for me next weekend.

[Hull376]

Peter,

I have my origianl coaming boards in the garage and will measure the holes and you can compare to what Bill comes up with.

[Hull376]

Peter T.,

Below is picture of old plate on original coaming board from 376. Its resting over the only and original screw holes. I think the dimensions are self explanatory, but let me know if not.

[Theis]

Thanks. Obviously this summer there will be a lot of ghee whizes, gosh gollys. I'd better load up on an extra case of beer.

[Bogle]

We will have to show these off to our Triton-sailing brethren. They will be envious, certainly. Did Tritons or other Pearsons from the 60's and 70's have anything so cool to show their model name?

[jwbass]

I am sending my set of Commander Emblems to Bristol this week. In an email conversation with Roger Winiarski, the President of Bristol, he has not received any other Commander emblems. He'll take whatever he gets, choose the cleanest one and make the mold. Any emblems sent to him will be returned to the sender after he's done his magic. He suggests sending the emblems to PO Box 101, Tiverton, RI 02878.

[glissando]

Some Tritons had, or have, a very similar emblem. You don't see many of these left--they must have been really cheap, lousy castings that just fell apart after a while.

The attached photo is not my boat, but it shows one of the emblems, which someone smartly moved inside the boat for preservation.

Tim

[glissando]

We do have nice heavy bronze Triton "Dudent" plaques, though. This thing is nearly 3/8" thick.

Tim

[Theis]

Here is what my nameplate looks like. The background is a brown file folder. The colors are boottop blue and off white. I took a gamble on outlining the blue flag- the jury is still out.

The nameplate is from Bristol Bronze, with a satin chrome finish.

[Theis]

The paint does not cover the "L". That is a reflection.

[mrgnstrn]

does that mean that the chroming in chicago is done?
and should i expect mine to come soon?
cool!

[Bill]

Don't get your hopes up too high. BB reported to me Wed that they expected to mail them "in a few days."

[ebb]

My two Pearson Ariel plates came today. But they're both right-sided.

[Bill]

Ebb,

Do you mean they are not mirror images??:confused:

[Hull376]

Guys, Guys,

Come on, they are the same on both sides of the boat. Trust me!;)

[Bill]

Do you mean they are really, really not mirror images?? :p

[Theis]

You get the same effect as having mirror images if you mount the one with the face side facing out on one side and the back side facing out on the other side. That is one of the ways you can differentiate port from starboard - so it is practical as well.

[ebb]

Like the smooth side, too! The 'A' in Ariel faces forward, Right? That's all I needed to know.

[Theis]

Well, the jury was out until yesterday about the satin chromed plates, and the blue painted flag with the white border. I kept looking at that bright bronze picture earlier in this thread wondering whether I had screwed up. Was this the ultimate boondogle?

Yesterday I went to the boat positioned high on the trailer. The temperature was in the twenties, and blowing. Occasional snow squalls. Ice covering the deck. It was tough.

Taking out the nameplates, taking off my gloves and struggling to maintain my grip on the small 1/2" #4 mounting screws, I attached the nameplates on the mahogany coamings in the proper location as specified above.

Now it is hard to view the mounted plates when a boat is in a yard surrounded by other boats, most of them being unattractive floating kitchens. From the ground, even if you do get a straight shot, the line of sight is from below, not from above, as it would be from a dock.

However, the jury came in with ananimous answer. The nameplates looked "Spectacular" was the result of their deliberations. Those plates do look great and add a lot visually. The satin chrome, blue and white are real positives. I recommend the finish and the colors

Putting my gloves on, I immediately went to a bar to get warm and have a beer.

[Gavin Mead]

Was there ever an order number available for the Commander nameplates? I tried searching around but didn't come across anything but pointers to this thread.

[Bill]

Not sure a stock number was posted for the Commander plate. An E-mail request to Bristol Bronze should get you the information. The Ariel plate order info - and BB contact -- is posted on the frist or second page of this thread.

[epiphany]

Thanks so much for the heads-up on this - in the Archives somewhere I'd seen an Ariel with a bronze nameplate below the companionway, inside (Scirocco maybe?), and had been meaning to ask about that.