Looking for an Ariel

[Jon]

I'm new to this forum and I'm impressed with all of the knowledgeable members. Much can be learned here.

My wife and I are looking for an Ariel. Since we live in Oklahoma where conducting a refit might be more than we bargained for, and because we are very new to sailing, we would like to find a boat that is in great shape and ready to sail. We would like a head and an inboard. And, a trailer would be a definite plus. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

Jon

[bill@ariel231]

Jon

welcome aboard! There are usually couple boats on the General/Off-Topic thread for sale. You will also find a few on ebay, craigs list and yachtworld. with most of these boats pushing 45+ years of age, nearly all will need some level of attention or refit. Although once they are in good shape again, the level of repair needed to keep going is no worse a new boat.

cheers,
bill@ariel231:)


here is an example from the board...
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1919

[Jon]

I have been watching those places and made a few contacts but nothing has come together so far. I intend to keep checking those sites, but I hope my post is read by any Ariel owner(s) who may be interested in selling their restored boat. I would be happy with a Triton too, but that's another website.

I've been looking since early November and from what I've been able to tell the best boats and the best sources for refit appear to be located on the Northeast coast. I've discussed, with Tim Lackey, the idea and prospect of having him rework a boat for me, but I need to locate a vessel first and make the call on whether or not Tim should be brought in.

Thank you though for your reply and comments. I will stay with this search until I find an Ariel. In the interim, I'll be watching this forum and paying attention. You fellas are a good group and I know that I can benefit from your experiences.

Jon

[carl291]

http://jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?itm=pearson&cat=cpboat

Check this link for a quick check of some Pearson boats currently for sale

GOOD LUCK! Carl

[Jon]

I have worked a large number of these ads diligently to find a sound boat. A number of these Ariels have deck core problems and I don't know of anyone in Oklahoma that can/will fix that kind of problem.

In re the location sent to me by Carl, I started chasing that Ariel from Morro Bay last week. I talked to the Seller and to her husband and I also called and emailed her surveyor and requested a copy of the survey from 2006. Seller told me that she might fax her copy of the survey to me but it would take her a week and I haven't heard back from the Surveyor, himself. The boat photos nicely, but most of them do. I kinda get the idea that they really don't want to part with that boat. In this economy, if I had one for sale, I would probably try to be a little more accomodating. who knows, I may hear from her in the next day or so.

I wonder if any of the members of this site know anything about that Morro Bay Ariel. Her name is "Ariel", or so I was told.

Jon

[mbd]

Jon,

Welcome aboard! Sounds like you're on the right track.

If I remember right, Willie in Oregon of Ava Maria was selling his Ariel a while back - AND he had a trailer! He did a beautiful restoration job. Although his Ariel was not an inboard model. Worth checking into though...

Houdini in Texas was up for sale fairly recently too. Really nice looking Ariel as well!

If you have the bucks and go that route, and have Tim L. restore one for you - I have no doubt you'll be very pleased. He's a straight up guy and a real pleasure to work with. You can't go wrong there.

Along those lines, call Northeast Sailboat Rescue, they have a website. He had an Ariel (that was just purchased I think), and has/had a Commander. A good source for a restoration boat. Plus, he sells trailers too. All it takes is $$. :)

You might also try "Charlie J" from the Plastic Classics/SailFar sites. He's down in Texas, certainly a capable boat builder/restorationist, and may be willing to work with you or have some leads you could chase down a bit closer to home.

Last bit of unsolicited advice: be patient. You'll know when your boat finds you, plus more boats will come up in the Spring.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Jon]

Mike,

Thank you for replying. I am working on locating a boat with Tim and I first saw your Sea Glass on his site. She's gorgeous and I hope you won't mind that I use one of your posted photos as a screensaver for my laptop. Everyone that sees her makes a comment on how beautiful she is. You are fortunate, indeed.

Tim and I are making contact on a boat today, as a matter of fact, but it is a Triton that I located and which is close to him, in Maine. If it turns out that his review of the boat is positive, he and I will talk about the associated costs of bringing her around cosmetically and finish her out for me. I wish i could say that I knew what to do in that regard, but all I know is what I read and I'm wise enough to know that a refit or cosmetic restoration job is not for me. With Tim though, I know I'll be with the right man for that kind of project.

I will keep you posted on this business. Your boat was actually THE inspiration to have me look for a boat and go this route.

Jon

[mbd]

I do feel quite fortunate Jon, thank you! And I'm very flattered that Sea Glass is someone else's screen saver too. :)

Just one more thing to consider. I see you're in Oklahoma so will obviously be sailing on a lake.

I used to moor my boat on a tidal marsh. Sand bars were everywhere and you really needed local knowledge to avoid getting stuck - especially at low tide. So draft was a primary concern in my "big boat" search. Tim's restoration of Glissando got me hooked on Tritons, but they didn't pass my draft test. Then I found the Ariels and started looking for one.

If draft is a concern for you as well, another boat you may consider is a Tartan 27. Same draft as our Ariel/Commanders but with a centerboard.

[tsprat]

Hey Jon
I believe there is a ariel for sale at the northeast sailboat rescue and its a inboard, there was one up there in dec., Its worth checking out

Tim

[Jon]

Mike,

I had thought about the draft problem and it seems to me that the Triton and the Ariel are pretty close in draft. It may be the Triton and a Renegade that I'm thinking about though, but I agree, that is a consideration. Most of the big lakes in NE Oklahoma are fairly deep and all of the deep lakes have a lot of sailboats. It's not at all uncommon to see 36 - 40' Hunters out roaming around on Lake Oolagah and Grand Lake (Of the Cherokees). Those boats have deep drafts. Oklahoma is famous for its winds (or atleast so says Boone Pickens) and these lakes are right in the gut of it, especially in the spring and fall. They won't compare with the Chesapeake, the Great Lakes or the Atlantic or Pacific seaboards but it's all we got and if i benefit from nothing else, i'll surely learn to sail in some serious wind.

tsprat....thank you for the tip. I will check it tonite.

Thanks again gentlemen, I sincerely appreciate your input. Please feel free to post anytime.

Jon

[mbd]

The Ariel draft for the Ariel is listed at 3'6". I think Tritons come in about a foot more. Can't go wrong with either, but I DO hear horror stories about Tritons and weather helm. :D

Hey, wasn't Sirocco's "new" owner in Oklahoma?

[kendall]

pretty sure the Triton is only 4ft draft.

Very close actually with the Ariel.
Shouldn't really comment on the weather helm, my Triton is a masthead rig, most are 7/8th rigs with a slightly larger main and smaller jib than mine. Which seems like it would contribute to the weather helm.
With the underbodies being very similar right down to the rudder size, (almost have to count the ports!) I'd guess that my Triton and Ariel would behave very similar also.

Can't make an actual comparison because my Ariel hasn't been in the water yet.

Can say that the Triton and Ariel are so close that when I varnished everything, I almost mounted the Triton coamings on the Ariel. The Triton's sat right down perfectly, but are about an inch and a half taller in the front with a bit more angle on the cabin sides, which is the only reason I noticed I had grabbed the wrong ones.

Ken.

[Jon]

In reply to Mike's post of 1-20-09:

Mike, i took a lead from you, did much digging and some research and read all of the posts from prior owners on this site and then I contacted the owner of Sirocco here in Oklahoma. We exchanged emails over the last several days and he commented that Sirocco, whose name is now something else, was berthed on Lake Oolagah, a fine local sailing lake and that with a few changes from when he acquired her, she was pretty much the same and in great shape. We agreed to meet to see her today around 1 PM. So, off I went, through 40 miles of freezing rain, then basically skated along 100 yards or so of frozen dock to find a boat that appears to have been totally neglected since Joe acquired her in 2006.

Seriously, Joe is a really nice fella, and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting him, but his boat looks like ****. The gorgeous coamings and brightware worn by Sirocco have been completely untouched in 3 years, the steps and compact galley area are gone and to enter the cabin you have to step from the cockpit onto a battery that sits next to the uncovered Atomic. The Atomic looks to be a mess. It's filthy and untagged wires are everywhere and none of the electric works. There is brown water in the bilge and the boat is filthy overall. The owner reports that the starter on the Atomic isn't working and he has hung a Tohatsu on a bracket over the stern. I didn't even bother to lift the lazarette to see if it was being used as a head....to hell with that....i thought.

Freezing rain was falling and ice was forming on the decks as we sat in the cabin, so I didn't get to skate forward and check all of the stansions or the mast and standing rigging, but the stansions were loose and the deck was cracking all around the chain plates and places where the rigging attaches to the deck.

As a potential buyer I was shocked and, in a way, heart broken. I had hoped to find a boat that had been well cared for and perhaps even a bit more updated. That idea made complete sense to me and had that been the case, I would have been willing to haul out the checkbook and do business. As it turned out, that gorgeous Sirocco is a filthy mess and she is in need of a complete refit.

I haven't written it off completely, but I'm 90% sure that I won't even bother to think of her again. If i were to buy this boat I would have to haul it, redo the interior and hope that a starter is all that is wrong with the Atomic. She needs to be inspected for soft spots on the deck....and I suspect there are many...then repaired and then painted from bow to stern. I'm not experienced enough to engage in that kind of repair, but i do know how to take care of things. It was a sad day.

All in all, as a potential first time sailboat owner, I have done a lot of looking, made a lot of calls and run a lot of cold trails in search of a boat. I am not daunted by my discovery of this mess, but I cannot understand how or why anyone could permit such a beautiful boat to suffer such neglect. There are a lot of boats on the market but to my way of thinking, it makes no sense to buy a beautiful refitted classic and permit it to fall into such disrepair.

I just don't get it. thankfully most of the men and women on this site are conscientious owners who take a great deal of pride in their restored classics. The rest of them should be so lucky to have a sense of value that would inspire them to do likewise.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep looking, but I suspect that I'm going to hang in there with Tim Lackey and find a boat that I can bring to beauty and then keep her there.

jon

[bill@ariel231]

Jon

Seriously, Outside of the likely need to recore she doesn't sound that far gone. One day with a power washer and a shop vac can do wonders there.

If you have in mind a trip to tim lackey's, then she may still be a good starting point.

As for the A4 it may be time to pull the engine and ship it to a rebuilder.


If you haven't seen them it's worth reading don caseys "this old boat" and or dan spurr's "upgrading the cruising sailboat". These and a family affinity for old pearsons and capedorys drove the boat selection at our house and added to a willingness to grab the power tools and set to work.

Good luck in the hunt, there is a boat out there looking for you.

Cheers
bill@ariel231 :)

[Jon]

Bill,

You are right. I have been focused on finding an old Pearson and Tim has recently looked at a Triton for me that may work. I will try to find copies of the two books you reference and broaden my knowledge of what it takes to get one of these old gals up to snuff and to keep her that way. The Triton that Tim and I are considering is in pretty fine shape but she will need a survey but we can't get that done for a couple of months. If she stays on the market and nothing else shows up, that will happen.

Let me ask this question though: Is is reasonable to think that if you go to the trouble and work to restore an old Ariel or Triton that annual maintenance will keep the boat's bloom. In other words, if you maintain the brightwork and the paint and replace failed systems, can't you keep your boat in great condition. The sun, wind and rain are very hard on any boat ad my thought is that if I go to all of the trouble to find and upgrade one of these old boats that at the very least I'm going keep her covered when I'm not on her.

In this owner's defense, let me say again, that he was a genuinely nice guy and I would like to get to know him. He indicated that he works a great deal and probably didn't have the time to work on her. He's a blue water sailor and if it had not been so cold and icey I would have insisted that we take her out. I think he would have been willing to go yesterday, but i wasn't about to ask....just too much weather for me.

When the weather breaks around here I will probably go back out and look at her again. It's hard to be objective when you're trying to look at a boat with an icey deck and the freezing wind and sleet is cutting you in half. One thing i noticed amid all of that weather....when we were in the cabin and she was moving about at her moorings, it felt great.

jon

[Tony G]

Jon

I agree whole heartedly with Bill. It is amazing what just a little elbow grease will do to brighten up a boat-or just about anything as far as that goes. You seem like an itelligent enough guy to understand that maintenance just has to be done. There's a sort of entropy out there when applied to a boat that will yeild a derelict. If it goes too far...well that's a bummer. But catch it before that point and it's some hard work and pride of ownership. I knew nothing of boat maintenance, epoxy and the like until I got started. It's not insurmountable if one find it a worthwhile task.

Having said that, you do need to know what you are getting into. Not everyone desires to toil for hours bringing a near-gone back to it's previous glorious state. It looks like you know the common weak spots on the Ariel so if you head back to see her give them a good going over with a critical eye. It's nothing personal against the current owner to assess the boat's condition in it's present state. At this point, emotions aside, it's purely business.

Believe me, I know how difficult it can be to keep the spirits bright when you have to deal with freezing rain, ice, snow, wind chills, bitter cold, etc., etc..

[bill@ariel231]

As for annual maintenace, a-231 was refit. 10yrs ago with a recored. deck, new diesel, 'glassed rudder, mast beam and fiberglass mast step, paint and standing rigging. My annual prep for the season differs from my friends with new (ie. 5 to 20 year old) boats only to the extent that the varnish on the coamings and rubrail may need attention and I plan to repaint the decks and hull about every 3 to 5 years.

[carl291]

Jon, check this out on :Atlanta GA Craigslist:

Jan 15 - Triton Sailboat for Sail: Lake Lanier, Georgia - $2500 - (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/boa/993687534.html) (Flowery Branch, Ga) pic <<boats (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/boa/)

I may know of a mover to help you on this boat, let me know .
Carl :)

[Jon]

Carl,

Thank you for the info on the Triton. I sent this seller and email requesting more info and hopefully some photos. I'll let you all know what i find if she replies.

thank you again.

Jon

[joe]

adn therefore, the honor of my vessel. Jon says that Sirocco (as you all know her) appears to have been totally neglected since I bought her in 2006, I had no idea Jon was there in Maryland the day I picked her up. He also states that her brightwork has not been touched in three years, again didn't know he had seen her in 2006. He also states that she looks like ****, by which I imagine he means sh%t, again, didn't know he saw her the day I bought her. Now, some fact and background. Attached is a picture of how she looked on 09-06-06, the day I bought her and had her put on a trailer for her trip to OK. As anyone can clearly see, she looks nothing like the beautiful pics that Steve, the man from whom I bought her, had posted on this very site. Did Steve deceive me? Certainly not, he is an honorable man. He and I communicated a great deal before I drove to Maryland to look at her. He informed me up front that the pics were about three years old and that she had been on the hard, in the elements for the three previous years and that her paint was dull, her varnish was dried out, cracked, and flaking. He also told me up front that the interior was damp and musty. THe three years in the rain, on the hard were VERY unkind to her ass you can clearly see from the attached pic. The real story though is her interior. Her interior wood had a great deal of rot. The starboard settee back cushion was eaten up inside by a type of fungus. Much of the wiring had been attacked by mice and wasps and had a great deal of corrosion as well. Her hoses were rotted or "critter-attacked" usually in places you would not see, of course. Did Steve know about all of this? I doubt it. He was quite honest with me about her current condition just as I have been with Jon. But many of her problems are things that you would not know or find in a boat on the hard. I've never met anyone who ran their engine when their boat was sitting on stands. Likewise, why would you run your nav and running lights while sitting on stands? I submit to you that actually, Sirocco is in MUCH better shape now than when I bought her. Her rotted hoses have been replaced, her engine was repaired (then her starter went out again) all of the corroded 12V wiring, shore powere wiring, charger, and inverter have been removed as has all of the interior wood that was rotted. She now has no mold or fungus. I could certainly go on but I believe that I have made my point. People should find out the facts of an issue before making negative comments about someone.
In reply to Mike's post of 1-20-09:

Mike, i took a lead from you, did much digging and some research and read all of the posts from prior owners on this site and then I contacted the owner of Sirocco here in Oklahoma. We exchanged emails over the last several days and he commented that Sirocco, whose name is now something else, was berthed on Lake Oolagah, a fine local sailing lake and that with a few changes from when he acquired her, she was pretty much the same and in great shape. We agreed to meet to see her today around 1 PM. So, off I went, through 40 miles of freezing rain, then basically skated along 100 yards or so of frozen dock to find a boat that appears to have been totally neglected since Joe acquired her in 2006.

Seriously, Joe is a really nice fella, and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting him, but his boat looks like ****. The gorgeous coamings and brightware worn by Sirocco have been completely untouched in 3 years, the steps and compact galley area are gone and to enter the cabin you have to step from the cockpit onto a battery that sits next to the uncovered Atomic. The Atomic looks to be a mess. It's filthy and untagged wires are everywhere and none of the electric works. There is brown water in the bilge and the boat is filthy overall. The owner reports that the starter on the Atomic isn't working and he has hung a Tohatsu on a bracket over the stern. I didn't even bother to lift the lazarette to see if it was being used as a head....to hell with that....i thought.

Freezing rain was falling and ice was forming on the decks as we sat in the cabin, so I didn't get to skate forward and check all of the stansions or the mast and standing rigging, but the stansions were loose and the deck was cracking all around the chain plates and places where the rigging attaches to the deck.

As a potential buyer I was shocked and, in a way, heart broken. I had hoped to find a boat that had been well cared for and perhaps even a bit more updated. That idea made complete sense to me and had that been the case, I would have been willing to haul out the checkbook and do business. As it turned out, that gorgeous Sirocco is a filthy mess and she is in need of a complete refit.

I haven't written it off completely, but I'm 90% sure that I won't even bother to think of her again. If i were to buy this boat I would have to haul it, redo the interior and hope that a starter is all that is wrong with the Atomic. She needs to be inspected for soft spots on the deck....and I suspect there are many...then repaired and then painted from bow to stern. I'm not experienced enough to engage in that kind of repair, but i do know how to take care of things. It was a sad day.

All in all, as a potential first time sailboat owner, I have done a lot of looking, made a lot of calls and run a lot of cold trails in search of a boat. I am not daunted by my discovery of this mess, but I cannot understand how or why anyone could permit such a beautiful boat to suffer such neglect. There are a lot of boats on the market but to my way of thinking, it makes no sense to buy a beautiful refitted classic and permit it to fall into such disrepair.

I just don't get it. thankfully most of the men and women on this site are conscientious owners who take a great deal of pride in their restored classics. The rest of them should be so lucky to have a sense of value that would inspire them to do likewise.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep looking, but I suspect that I'm going to hang in there with Tim Lackey and find a boat that I can bring to beauty and then keep her there.

jon

[joe]

I've never met anyone who bought a good old boat with no intention of turning her into a first class "Bristol Fashion" yacht. I had many plans for Sirocco (as you all know her). When I bought her in September 2006, I worked only 60 hours per week, lots of time off. Just as for many of you, things have changed. I am now working between 90-97 hours per week. On the extremely rare day off, if the weather isn't too bad, I will go out for a sail. Unfortunately, I've been able to only about once every 8 or 9 weeks. Why do I work so much when I own such a fine boat to sail? I am deep in the financial crisis just like millions of others, perhaps many of you all and I am trying to keep the creditors at bay, just as I'm sure many of you are. We all have big dreams for our boats but, as they say, "life intrudes". And I will not fix any cosmetic issues until ALL of the importatn issues have been tended to.

[carl291]

Good morning Joe,
The scathing report of your vessel's condition did seem a bit harsh, however as was mentioned by Bill 231 and Tony G and I'm sure thought by many others, my self included, Gee I wish our boats only had those few issues when we bought ours. :p
I have a yard full of "recreational vehicles" and projects that are being neglected right now, because of economics so in the immortal words of President Clinton " I feel your pain"
Good Luck, Carl

[SkipperJer]

Jon,
If you're still looking for an Ariel there is one in the process of being reclaimed in Maryland. The previous owner turned the title over to the owner of the yard where I keep my boat to settle his outstanding bill. He's moved on to other forms of recreation. The boat is essentially sound but needed the usual: new paint on the bottom and topsides, some deck core replaced and the interior cleaned up. All the wood trim is now in his basement being refinished and varnished. The bottom and topsides have been sanded and will be painted in the spring.

The yard owner sails an Ariel himself. His was another derelict that he reclaimed for his own use. He wins on Wednesday nights regularly in his gem of a boat. The one he is working on now is an outboard model, does not have a trailer, and is quite a distance from your home but you'd gain some influence on how it will be finished and I promise you, the work being done on this boat will be first class.

If you're interested, send me a private message and I'll put you in touch with the yard owner.

[joe]

Thank you very much Carl:), From a hull, deck, and mechanical standpoint, I would put my boat up against nearly any other ( as long as nav lights are not required) LOL. I was asked by one of the folks at the marina last year why I don't intend to rewire the nav and running lights; I responded that Oologah is a sizeable lake but that you can see rock no matter where in the lake you are. I learned LONG ago along the coast of Nova Scotia in an old CD 28 that sailing in the dark anywhere within the sight of land is not a very brilliant thing to do and I now therefore choose to not sail at night unless the nearest land is so far away that I would not be able to see it if I were standing at the top of the mast using HUGE binoculars:D

Good morning Joe,
The scathing report of your vessel's condition did seem a bit harsh, however as was mentioned by Bill 231 and Tony G and I'm sure thought by many others, my self included, Gee I wish our boats only had those few issues when we bought ours. :p
I have a yard full of "recreational vehicles" and projects that are being neglected right now, because of economics so in the immortal words of President Clinton " I feel your pain"
Good Luck, Carl