ocean cruising

[grumol]

hi all, very impressed by all the info you've gathered -- my question has to do with a potential buy of a 62 ariel, which i just discovered down the road from my home -- i'm not familiar with the ariel, other than what i have read on your site and links -- have people done much ocean/ heavy weather sailing, or even circumnavigated in this boat, as in other alberg designs? -- how stable is it? -- thanks, bob

[Bill]

Ariels and Commanders have cruised off shore to Hawaii, Greece, Mexico and Northern Europe. A Commander's sail from Los Angeles to the Med - via the Pacific - will be documented in an upcoming book by Zoltan Gurhko(SP). The August or September 2001 Cruising World and the March 2002 Good Old Boat had a brief accounts by Zoltan.

[grumol]

Just what I wanted to hear -- and since the new guy learned a new phrase today, I'll use it: does anyone know the "Limit of Positive Stability" for the Ariel, or is that only available for newer boats? -- thanks, bob

[S.Airing]

I dont want to burst your bubble but,after owning an Ariel for going on 12 years I can honestly say I wouldnt want to cross any oceans on her.The water line is way to short,which makes them very slow and bouncy,on top of that there is really no storage,for fuel or water and the bunks are too short.Dont get me wrong I really like the boat but Im a big person 6`2 210 pounds and I get in my own way after a few days.I dont really day sail, I go out for 3 or 4 days at a time,most people on this board are day sailers or racers.I think they are a great little bay cruiser for a few days at a time but thats it.I have spent 7 days out on Sirocco at a time ,it was a bit tight.If your planning to cross oceans there are plenty of boats out there that were made to do that,even an Alberg 30 is a lot better choice.

[commanderpete]

You can try these links for a capsize screening ratio.


http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__capsize.htm


http://www.geocities.com/jvandrey/flicka_calculator.html


I get a 1.84 on the capsize ratio. Under 2.00 is good

On the AVS I got a 141.98, also good.

The "AVS" is the angle of vanishing stability.

Obviously, these boats were not designed as blue water passagemakers. But, people have crossed oceans in far more unlikely craft.

Of course, the Association expressly disclaims liability for your death, disfigurement, dismemberment, or other serious physical injury if you should rely on any advice posted here on this website, especially from me.

[grumol]

"angle of vanishing stability"? ..... two new phrases in one day! -- anyway, just got back from looking at 63 Ariel, with a "130" on the plate on the back of the cockpit -- and I dont know boats, but I think I know that the whole deck was delaminated -- the outer layer would deflect at least 1/2" before coming to rest -- no good, eh? -- bob

[Mike Goodwin]

Decks are easy to fix if the boat is cheap enough . Did mine last year .I had open splits that the rain just poured through . Re-cored the entire stbd side and the whole foredeck , but my boat was only $600 , that is what the guy that had it owed me .

[commanderpete]

Here is an interesting little story about a cruise to Hawaii where just about everything went wrong. Contains some good tips.

http://www.equipped.org/0698rescue.htm

[commanderpete]

Here is a boat that's half the length of an Ariel

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,4822751%255E662,00.html

Crazy old coot

[c_amos]

I know some of this is in the manual, mine is on the boat right now.

A friend and I were having a conversation, and he asked me what the DL ratio was on the Ariel, I told him I had no idea.

Here is what he came up with,

SPECIFICATIONS RATIOS RIG DIMENTIONS
LOA 25.58 SA/D 15.3 I 31.5
LWL 18.66 D/L 402 J 9.5
BEAM 8 BR 44% P 27
DRAFT 3.58 L/B 3.2 E 11.5
DISP 5700 LWL/BWL 2.67
BALLAST 2500 CSF 1.79

SCREENING STABILITY VALUE 18.25
SAIL AREA 305
MCR 26.6
ANGLE OF VANISHING STABILITY 158.47
HULL SPEED 5.76
PHRF 261


LEGEND
SA/D=SAIL AREA TO DISPLACEMENT RATIO
D/L=DISPLACEMENT TO LENGTH RATIO
BR=BALLAST RATIO
L/B=LOA TO BEAM RATIO
LWL/BWL=LWL TO BEAM WATERLINE LENGTH RATIO
MCR=MOTION COMFORT RATIO


D/L LEGEND:
40-50 LIGHT RACING MULTIHULL
60-100 ULTRA LIGHT OCEAN RACER
100-150 VERY LIGHT OCEAN RACER
150-200 LIGHT CRUISER/RACER
200-250 LIGHT CRUISING AUXILIARY
260-300 AVERAGE CRUISING AUXILIARY 300-350 HEAVY CRUISING AUXILIARY
350-400 VERY HEAVY CRUISING AUXILIARY :D

LINKS used:
http://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html
http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__avs.htm
http://pearsoninfo.net/info/pearsons-tabloid.pdf

[c_amos]

The 2500# balast must include the 200# lead pigs.

Since the spec sheet on the sale brochure lists 2300#.

I notice some of the other numbers are slightly different also.

"VERY HEAVY CRUISING AUXILIARY"

Kinda like the sound of that. :D

[ebb]

Take me awhile to absorb some of those numbers. You can get most people to nod their heads when you tell them that half of an Ariel's displacement (weight) is in the lead in the keel. "Oh, rilly?" head nods yes.

An Ariel going cruising probably has some important numbers altered a bit. But it always has 2500# of lead as far down in the boat as it can get. And it's not an oversize dinghy with exposed appendages. ;)

[ebb]

Bob,
'Limit of Positive Stability'
refers to the sanity of an owner preparing an Ariel for cruising when it finally dawns on him that it's taking forever. :o

[c_amos]

Bob,
'Limit of Positive Stability'
refers to the sanity of an owner preparing an Ariel for cruising when it finally dawns on him that it's taking forever. :o

Amen Ebb....

:rolleyes:

amen.

[eric (deceased)]

it took 2 years for me to prepare my ariel for a 3 month cruise.was it worth it?you may have read my story but you dont know the half of it.I was ridiculed and criticized for years,all I got was negativity....that I would never do it.I had what I call"stick-to-it-iveness" :Dandwhen I returned,those people couldnt look me in the face.when they saw me coming,they would turn the other way.sure.I did it again and again,but like the song goes,its never as good as the first time