Commander Line Drawing?

[Commander 274]

Does anybody have a good line drawing of the Commander?

Many of the drawings I have seen are "cut-away" types and show everything below deck, or they are of poor quality.

an Alberg 29 example
http://www.twentynine.ca/images/line_drawing.gif

Thanks,
Michael

[Lucky Dawg]

This is the best I could get from the brochure. I would love a clearer copy. (I added my hull number and the Commander logo to the sail)

[Commander 274]

Ah yes. Thank you for your reply.

I found this same graphic in one of your earlier posts. I have tried to photoshop this to improve the quality (no offense), but I am not very good.

[Lucky Dawg]

No offense taken. You can't fix a fuzzy original. I think I started with this image http://www.pearsoninfo.net/commander/brochure/br2.jpg or the one from the manual. Neither is a good starting point.

This is a really old thread with even fuzzier images - a pre-owner posting I submitted. http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1213&highlight=comparison That is not even remotely helpful, I know. No one ever bit on a better sailplan image though...

[Commander 274]

you brought that image a very long way. well done.

somebody has to have a good copy though, wouldn't you think?

[ebb]

Check out
Essex-Peabody Museum in Salem MA.
978-744-3390

[Lucky Dawg]

Thanks Ebb,
I left a VM for Irene Axelrod who is the research librarian there. I will inquire regarding any available images of our A and C yachts.

In the mean time, check out loads of old maritime images from their collection... http://www.esseximages.com/mgeneral.aspx?CategoryID=9

[ebb]

Holy Moby, look at the George W. Wells on pg2!
Put the Maltese Falcon to shame.
Which, BTW, Perkins has it for sale on YachtWorld.com.
In case you need another boat.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Later post:
Maine Maritime Museum has another view of this gorgeous schooner.
It is parked against a background of turn of the century wood frame buildings with a long sprit little white cutter under its bows. No sails, but VERY impressive.
Shows its massive presense. 3000 tons, 230 feet.
These were coasters and this one spent it's days carrying coal mostly.:(

[Lucky Dawg]

Wondering if there is an image in one of the earlier volumes of this book http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1929006047/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link There are a hundred or so in each of 6 volumes. I sent an inquiry to Sailing Mag about possible archives.

Quick! Name all of those sails!

[Lucky Dawg]

OK, can you tell two clients no-showed this afternoon??

Sailing Mag archives don't show our boats, (Bristol 27 is as close as they get http://www.sailingonline.com/component/content/article/556) but they do have an article on Pete's Melonseed http://www.sailingonline.com/component/content/article/3-perry-on-design/263-melonseed-skiff?directory=79

click archive just above the article to see other entries.

[commanderpete]

Uh-oh.....say the magic word and you get a picture

George Washington Bridge

[Lucky Dawg]

Don'tcha love a girl that makes you take a look back as you walk away? The author of the Sailing Mag article is swooning over her. What's the decision process on Gracing-ing vs. Melonhead-ing?

[commanderpete]

Oh, I don't know. With the Melonseed I can get to new cruising grounds in 2 hours instead of 2 days. Not having to worry about running aground is very liberating too.

The Commander is better for the rough stuff, and for company. Plenty of room in the cockpit (you would think)

[Commander 274]

Thanks everybody for participating in the topic.

I spent some time looking through book previews on Amazon/Google that involved the line drawings I am looking for. The Triton is the only boat that is relatively similar to the Ariel or Commander.

I sent the above image to one of my buddys that is more skilled with graphics. Perhaps he will have something for me soon.

[Lucky Dawg]

I visited the National Pearson Yacht Owners Association site - which, by the way, used to charge for memebership, but no longer does. http://www.pearsoncurrent.com/home/index.php



This statement was on their FAQ page:
Q: Where can I get a copy of original plans and manual for my particular model and year Pearson?
A: When the Pearson Yacht Corporation declared bankruptcy, all assets were put into receivership until the lawyers had worked through the details of closing the company down. An auction was held on the inventory of parts, some machinery, etc., however the architectural drawings were not included in that sale. Some of them were distributed to one of the managers of the firm and we have been trying to make them available to members and others who need them to undertake repair work, re-fits, and general maintenance. The NPYOA even secured a not-for-profit maritime museum that would be willing to assume ownership of the materials and make them available. At this point that effort is underway, and we will certainly keep members informed of our progress.
One factor needs to be considered with this request. Given the number of years that have past and the several changes that have been made to most Pearsons, the original plans will be of limited real value.We of course have our manual thanks to dedicated folks here!

[Lucky Dawg]

Plenty of room in the cockpit (you would think)

Massive cockpit?? Pshaw! That stern spot is one of my favorites when someone else is sailing LD. I like to stand there - Master and Commander Style - barking orders, two feet on the laz and one hand on the backstay. If I have a tankard in hand, all the better.

[commanderpete]

Haven't tried transom surfing the Melonseed yet.

Need a bit more wind I think

[commanderpete]

The brochure is interesting. I've been trying to make it larger

They changed their mind about those winch islands

2700 lbs. lead ballast

[commanderpete]

Maybe this will work

[Commander 274]

i researched some free photo editing software that had "layers" and I was able to essentially trace the graphic posted earlier in the post.

please excuse any details I missed.

[Lucky Dawg]

NICE!!

Got a reply from the museum lady who forwarded me to maritime people. Got no reply from the pearsoncurrent folks on their tracking of Alberg's vagabond plans following Pearson's demise. Will keep you posted.

In the mean time, again, NICE!

[Lucky Dawg]

p.s. I pasted both images into photoshop and it is interesting to view them. With all due respect, a nearly perfect tracing - so hear no criticism - I am only praising Alberg. There are the slightest differences that make the original (I didn't edit anything - that is just Alberg) look... more refined and graceful. The fine difference between the profile width of the deck to toerail elevations, the oblong windows, slight differences in the coaming height and a small sweep to them, slight differences in the bow-line, and the gentler sheerline (?) from the transom to the waterline. I know it has been drooled over before, but just those minute differences, in total... gives his drawing such a more graceful feel. I appreciate the artistry.

[Commander 274]

The clear cut straight lines of the photo editor I used do not do the boat justice. and I know this.

this was also the first time I used the editor and I learned some tricks as I did the tracing. I also only used the track pad of my laptop. I still need to purchase a mouse!

I would still be interested in a professional rendering.

(edit)... and please feel free to correct my drawing. I am not an artist of any sort, so I would not take offense.

[Lucky Dawg]

Again, no offense to your rendering - and I couldn't correct it to be any better. Only commenting on the subtleties of the fine art of Alberg.

[Commander 274]

haha, no offense taken. thanks for working with me on this.

[Lucky Dawg]

I think I hit pay dirt - with Ebb's help. Essex does have the original sailplan (maybe other documents?) for our A & C yachts. I asked for direction from their reproduction dept for us to obtain what she has and how to make it easiest on her if there are multiple takers.

Stay tuned and I will give you full details.

What the hey Ebb - you been holding out on us, er what?!?!? :)

[ebb]

Hey Kyle,
I believe Admiral Bill has sourced these museum 'original big copies' for us in the past.
But I am SEARCH button challenged, never being able to find what I want when using it!
I also believe Essex wants some big bucks for making copies. If they are compleat there may be many pages.
It would be good if they will prorate you the page of your choice, like the Commander sail plan, if that was all you wanted. ???

It's my impression (memory challenged) that these museum copies exist out here in the real world somewhere. I can't remember who has them. But it obviously would be very easy and not expensive today to have an oversized copy made of the needed sheet at a copy-shop.
The original plans were drawn to 1" equals 1' scale.
That may mean the sheets are 32" X 48".
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
Mentioned this befor:
You should be able to accurately corroborate all measurements with the following method. The lines are a bit fat but overall the drawings are very good.
Took copies from our Manual to a copy shop and had them enlarged to SCALE. 1/2" to 1'. It took a number of tries.
A 1" to 1' (doll-house scale) ruler is downloadable from the net. It wasn't accurate so I had the copy shop fix that too and got a couple new working plan-rulers laminated.
It was natural to choose 1/2" to 1' for the boat plans. That means the 25' 6" boat image is 12 3/4" actual inches on 17"X24" stock paper. The sail plan is about 15" tall and 12" wide. Nice size. Brought a s.s. ruler with me to the copy-shop to make sure the image was accurate verified by actual and published measures.
That image size and the 12 spaces per inch rule has made it easy to measure onto OR off the plans. The enlarging seems very accurate. But the images in the Manual may not be.

For example: the profile lines drawing (pg144) for the Ariel/Commander - 'signed' and revised at the bottom by Alberg - HAS A CURVED SHEER,
but the boat I'm working on
HAS A STRAIGHT SHEER.

[Rico]

Sign me up!
-I'd ve very interested in a copy of the commander's hull profile line drawing as well...

[Lucky Dawg]

I see some discussion here. http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=419&highlight=peabody

Indeed, apparently not cheap for copies!

Will keep you posted with up to date pricing.

----
update - Maritime Man says he will get back to me tomorrow or Friday. He was unsure what was on the 3 sheets they have and/or moreso what is on which. He was going to look at them and let me know.

[Lucky Dawg]

Per the curator:
"Just looked at the plans. Obviously, the lines pertain to both ARIEL and COMMANDER. However, the sail and cabin plan are for ARIEL (only). No idea where other (Commander) plans ended up, unfortunately. These Ariel plans are available through the museum. If you are interested in obtaining a reproduction of it, contact Christine Michelini in our photo services department to place an order (christine_michelini@pem.org). If you wish to order a copy, the cost is $25 and $10 shipping and handling." Sounds to be a full size blueprint per prior discussion. If it is the hull lines you want, it applies to Commander. Otherwise, you lucky Ariels are the focus.

Thanks Ebb, I (for one) was less interested for scale measurements than a big suitable for framing blueprint. But, my friend, you are one handy and resourceful dude.

The quest continues, Commanders!

A decent scan of the original from p. 109 of the manual is here: http://kylewilliams.net/file-park.htm (click sailplan link) (edit: I just uploaded a larger image. At 8MB, it will take a while to load.)

p.s. I also fiddled with the image in Photoshop and made a watermark for making notepaper with Commander in the background. (PDF below - similar sailplan for Ariel on p 103 of the manual. Happy to do the same either/both image for Ariel-ites)

[ebb]

Kyle, Aside from finding a great blueprint art piece of the Commander profile...
It looks like an assumption was made that the sails for Commander and Ariel are interchangeable. Is this so?
May have missed it but sails are not mentioned in our Manual equipment or promo lists.

Has anybody tried to interchange sails? It seems noticable that the boom is carried higher on the Commander which in my non-thinking assumption told me that the mainsails were the same. Or actual masts from each could be measured viz masthead to gooseneck...

A sailloft that makes sails for both will have the measurements.

And masts on the two boats are in exactly the same position....Is this so?

If it really is not known if the sails are the same then both boats could be brought up to scale and measured by the above method.

If mast, boom and sails are the same (as they appear to be from the Manual)
You could take that nice interior view drawing of the Commander (pg109) and patch a nice Ariel sailplan drawing on top of it.


Notice, by the way, that someone, maybe Alberg, doodled in a BABY STAY on the small Commander profile in the upper right of pg109.
On another thread we discussed adding an inner stay.
Here it looks like Alberg beat us to it!


Then take it back to the copy-shop and have it enlarged to whatever size...
One inch to one foot.

[John]

I have called the Peabody-Essex Museum and they said they thought they had a set of plans for the Commander. I didn't think to ask about the Ariel. They were the recipient of a number of Alberg's drawings.

[Lucky Dawg]

Per post #30 above, that isn't the story I got a couple weeks ago. "Ariel/Commander hull, Ariel deck and sailplans" I would be delighted if he was mistaken though! Push on!

[John]

Kyle,

You have the best answer. When I talked with the P-E museum, whomever I got said he did not have time to look but he thought both the Commander and Ariel plans were there. If I would call back later he would look. Phooey!!!!!!

[Lucky Dawg]

Certainly give it a try. You are talking to someone different than I did or he would have said "uh, didn't I just have this conversation a couple weeks ago??"

[Bill]

FYI - Research by your association in 1999 - 2000 identified the Peabody as repository for some of Alberg's drawings. We were able to obtain a copy of the "Ariel & Commander Lines" drawing for reduction and inclusion in the association's Owner's Manual. We are restricted from duplicating it for other purposes.

Our research turned up no other Alberg drawings for such things as cabin layouts, deck plans or sail plans. These drawings were executed by Pearson and we acquired copies sometime in the 1980's. They are also published in the manual.

As I recall, Peabody will sell a photograph of the lines drawing, but the cost quoted for that seemed unreasonable at the time. Not to mention the difficulty identifying someone at Peabody who was knowledgeable and able to help :(

[ebb]

The Manual's interior plan and profile for the Ariel is not 'as built' so far
as A338 is/was concerned. A number of inaccuracies and whimsicals.
It would be great to have an 'as designed' set of plans for both A/C....
Isn't Everett still on board?
You know, maybe they're in a closet somewhere?

[Lucky Dawg]

Any interest in an upgraded image of your yacht? I saw the image below on the Saber website - trying to ID a rocket of a cabin cruiser that crossed my bow a week or so ago (that boat below - I don't think it is a Saber... at least 50' and absolutely flying down the lake.)
Anyway, the Commander drawing at left and the Saber image at right - I talked to a graphic designer here in town who said he could make my line drawing look like the Saber image to the tune of about $200-240. Anyone interested in going in on such a production? It would bring the price down, of course if we shared it amongst us. No reason he couldn't do the same with the Ariel - and maybe at a bit less as the Commander hull line would already be created.

I think the the old girls deserve to have better images at hand than we've been able to find elsewhere.

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