I could use the advice of everyone here...

[Commander 147]

I have decided I will own a Commander as soon as the economy turns around and I can justify taking the money out of savings. The large cockpit for sailing with friends and the cabin that will allow my wife and I to do our annual 3 to 4 day mini cruises makes it perfect for us. On top of that at least for me, I need to feel good about the boat I sail and the Commander is very appealing to my eye and something I would feel very proud to own.

So I would appreciate any information you can give me on what things to look for as I look at boats for sale. What are the most common or most likely points for problems to exist. I would rather not find a significant problem after I have bought the boat.

I'm a very good woodworker and generally very good at repairs and modifications. I want to do a complete refit to the boat once I own it and try to bring it back to like new condition.

Also what are some of the mods that you have all found to make sailing the Commander a more enjoyable event?

And one more question. Does anyone know how many Commanders were built with the inboard engine? Has anyone ever converted one from an outboard engine to an inboard?

Any and all advise would be appreciated.

[bill@ariel231]

Commander willbe

welcome to the forum. there are a lot of candidate boats out there if you are willing to bring out the power tools.

An Inboard engine install should be similar to the one i did on A-231. it will be a longer reach to get to the engine. It looks like all of the hulls commander and ariel hulls share the preformed propeller aperture, although the aperture s faired over on boats that left the factory as outboard models.

for a view of the cut-out & fairing take a look at the thread for A-24, she had a leak in that area.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1558&page=9

anyway of you were to remove that cover, you will find the location to install the shaft log and cutless bearing for an inboard if you are so inclinded.

For A-231, I followed the advice of Dan Spurr in his book "upgrading the cruising sailboat" for advice on location of the engine beds and fuel tank..

cheers,
bill@ariel231:)

[Commander 147]

Bill I am going to want to talk to you in depth about this when I have done my homework and read everything I can find on the subject. Another friend of mine who is the most knowledgeable sailor I know had told me that the propeller aperture would be molded into the boat. I am very glad to hear another confirmation of that fact.

In addition to the link and the book you suggested are there any other things that you can think of that I should study?

Oh and power tools and I get along very nicely. :)

[bill@ariel231]

you may want to look at "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual"
by Nigel Calder and anything by Don Casey.

:)

[Commander 147]

I will do my homework and get back to you with any questions I have once I've done it.

Thanks again for your assistance.

[bill@ariel231]

The books listed above apply to any sailboat.

for the class particulars, it's worth putting in a plug for the class association maintenance book. it has some factory drawings that will make locating the engine a bit easier.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/manintro.htm

enjoy,
bill@ariel231:)

[Commander 147]

Yes I had already assumed that and yesterday afternoon I printed out the order form and will send it in this week.

You have already been a big help. Thanks

[Commander 147]

"Spurr's Guide to Upgrading Your Crusing Sailboat" What an excellant book. I got my copy in yesterday and I've started reading. It is very well written and easy for me to understand. I am very glad you pointed me in the direction of this book. Thanks

[ebb]

Gee, where was this thread?
Great recommendations on books from our local cognisenti!
There never seems to be a book that has it all.
Some books have the knack to lead you onto your personal information journey.
There are no do-it-yourself books that talk with anybody with more than basic how-to skills,
Most books don't care about the practical aspects of a project you are interested in - there you are on your own - so having some prior experience is a huge plus.

Sometimes I have the experience of really 'getting' something then turning the page to find the chapter has ended.

I've yet to find a how-to book with adequate formulas, conversion tables, and charts, gauges, sizes, comparisons, sources.
Brion Toss's "Rigger's Apprentice" does not explain how to renovate, repair, design an aluminum mast and boom on a typical small sailboat. None of these guys to my mind lay out a detailed understanding of the aluminum spar: it's materials, its attachments, its layout. Even wiring is glossed over.

Here are some books to take a look at.

"This Old Boat", by Don Casey, has not been mentioned. It probably could round out your library as its intent is for you to "Turn a rundown fiberglass boat into a first-class yacht on a shoestring budget." Sounds great. But there are many things missing that after a while you won't reference it any more. The other books you have will do a better job, or have alternatives.
It's a adequate place to start from.

Sometimes a book at your experience level is good to have for its methods:
"Boat Interior Construction" 2nd Ed by Michael Naujok. This is midlevel stuff and the book's main attraction is excellent photos that show you how they did it, in case you've forgotten. I believe he has another book out on the exterior(?). His expertise is renovating the more modern small European sailboat.

A great practical book is Fred P Bingham's (24' Allegra) "Practical Yacht Joinery"
a kind of text book on tools/techniques/tips and jigs. If you know all this stuff YOU should write the book! There is also another with a similar title.
A project book you should look for in used shops is "The Sailor's Sketchbook" by Bruce Bingham NA (20' Flicka). Deft, masterful illustrations, in themselves candy for the eye whether sailing tips or planking a glass hatch. The only source for checking out if masting is for you. Father and son.

Another good traditional source is Tim Lackey's Illustrated Triton saga. google 'Triton 381' on the net. Much is recognizable - Pearson/Alberg/'60s in photos, though not specific to Commander, the fittings. building style, and spars are similar if not the same - as our masts are. This writer often takes you through his thinking process and mistakes. Refreshing, lengthy, opinionated, unique.

John Vigor (of denaming/renaming fame) is a deft, entertaining sailor/writer of books like "Things I wish I'd Known Before I Started Sailing" His magnum opus "The Practical Encyclopedia of Boating" is an alphabetically arranged compendium like some others but in Vigor's vigorous style. My copy is International Marine's gigantic hardbound coffee table edition. Have trouble wrestling it down the hatch and finding anything flat for it to occupy. If I wanted it aboard for reference I could add hinges and make it a table extension. They got to renovate it into a handier form. Books have to be vertical on a small boat.


You can find an amazing amount of info here on this Board.
You have to dig and spend a lot of time reading stuff you probably don't have time to read. Indexing is rudimentary if you are google-spoiled. But, somewhere,
the real monte is right HERE, sir.:D
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[bill@ariel231]

my own journey of boat restoration books included Dan Spurr's and Don Casey's first book that Ebb mentioned above.

Since one of my projects on A-231 was the installation of a diesel, a trick i found very useful in Spurr's book was running a wire the length of the boat to register the centerline of the propeller shaft in 3-space. from that line, i used a 2d plywood mockup of the engine to define the location of the engine beds. The 2d mockup was also a chance to look at the load path for the engine into the boat. Many of the examples in the early edition of that book addressed the pearson triton in particular and are directly applicable to the Ariel and Commander.

I've used Don Casey's book for inspiration on the canvas making side of the restoration.

As for making patterns for the foundry of the bronze portlights, i've had the luck to know a retired pattern maker now in his mid-90's. His advice was priceless.

Tom Lackey's restoration was begun a couple years after i started A-231, but it is a great compendium of material...:)

[Commander 147]

You guys have given me a whole winter's worth of reading to do. :)

Here in Florida we do most of our sailing in the fall, winter and spring so it may take me a little longer to get it all read. I think I will print your posts out and put them in my Commander file so when I do find a commander to purchase I will be able to easily go back and find the right referance book for the particular project I have next on the agenda.

In addition to Dan Spurr's book that I'm reading now I have also ordered the association manual which will probably get here about the time I'm done reading this book.

[carl291]

C. Willbe
Are you certain you don't want an Ariel? I have a tip on an Ariel in middle GA ,it's on a trailer, could be delivered to Brooksville Fl for a fair price. The trailer is not included. The galley has been removed along with the ice box. Needs the starboard foredeck recored, etc, etc, It's a typical refit for a 40 yr old. but it is priced right. Since you enjoy working with power tools you'd have a grand old time with this one. The most expensive part would be the transportation and the crane or large wrecker to set it off the trailer. it does have a FL title. Email me if curious. Carl