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Tim Mertinooke
02-05-2007, 02:59 PM
Well, I purchased Hull #24 and will have her resting safely in my yard by the end of this month. She is in sailable shape on a nice roadworthy trailer less than an hour from my home in western Massachusetts. My wife and I are school teachers and plan on cruising the New England coast together most of the summer with our 4-year-old son. The boat will be kept in Newburyport on the Merrimack River where we have kept our Cape Dory Typhoon (http://www.mrmert.com/images/Typhoon.jpg)for the past five years. At the end of the season she will then be trailered back to my house about two hours away to be worked on. My list of projects probably looks similar to everyone elses; couple soft spots on the deck, spongy cockpit sole, replace ice box, paint interior, etc. The two most pressing issues however that will need to be done before splash time is the rudder shoe and a bulge in the keel where the lead ballast is. The rudder shoe seems strong and has no play. The fiberglass sheathing over the shoe is cracked and once I get it to my house, I will be able to grind it off to get a better assessment. My feeling is that it looks worse that it is because it appears to be very strong and the bronze rudder shaft is in good condition. The bulge however takes priority and I am ready to attack it with a grinder, then start the layup routine. My initial idea as to the cause of the bulge was water migration through the bilge, then freezing. The bulge location is where the lead ballast is, so the expansion may have pushed against the lead and the fiberglass. The other side of the hull opposite this bulge shows no bulge at all. The perplexing thing however is that it is in a very localized area. Maybe it wasn't freezing water, but a blister? Maybe water that reached the laminate from the outside then froze? It was mentioned to me on another board that this sort of thing has happened to other ariels and would be very interested in hearing from those who have been there and done that. Bulges and soft spots aside I am very excited about our new ariel. Having been an Alberg fan my whole life and weighing the trade-offs with bigger vs. smaller, the ariel is a perfect fit. Big enough to cruise, small enough to trailer home at the end of the season. My plan is to document my restoration on a website that should be up and running by the time the boat gets home.

Tim
http://www.mrmert.com/images/Keel%20Bulge%201.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Keel%20Bulge%202.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Keel%20Bulge%204.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Keel%20Bulge%205.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Keel%20Bulge%206.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Side%20Profile.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Starboard%20Quarter%20View.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/Front%20View.JPG

frank durant
02-05-2007, 04:15 PM
Thats a fine looking boat...well worth your efforts.Please keep us updated to your repairs and mods.Always interesting to see peoples ideas 'come to life'. They are fine sailing boats. Have fun;)

mbd
02-06-2007, 05:38 AM
Congrats and welcome aboard Tim! Looking forward to tracking your progress on A24! She's a beaut.

PS. Love the Mark Twain quote on your website too...

c_amos
02-06-2007, 09:03 AM
Tim,

Glad you found your way here from the Classic Plastic's site. I think you will find some of the same folks here. There is some great info to be found here.

They really are great boats, and she will be well worth the time you spend on her.

I look forward to watching your progress on the repair.

Good Luck!

Tim Mertinooke
02-06-2007, 09:12 AM
Here is a picture of A-24's rudder. The shoe feels solid so my plan is to grind off the loose glass then reglass. If the shoe's integrity is in question, then a replacement shoe is in order which will be a much more substantial repair. I'll post what it looks like after grinding which will paint a clearer picture later this month when the boat is transported to my yard. Tim


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%202.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%201.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%203.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%204.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%205.JPG

commanderpete
02-06-2007, 01:50 PM
Nice boat.

Don't think we've seen any reports of the keel busting out like that. Not a real biggie though. Have at it!

I'd take care that the repair is fair and symmetric with the other side.

Bottom looks smooth. That's a bonus

Tim Mertinooke
02-06-2007, 03:05 PM
The PO had removed all of the bottom paint before his last season in the water. There is one coat on most of the bottom with a few hard to reach areas with more. This was a bonus for the close-up inspection of the hull and having done it with my Typhoon last winter I can say I'm glad he did it not me.

Yeah, the bulge was the only thing that made me the slightest bit apprehensive before purchasing. After much research, I feel confident that with some grinding and a good careful layup, in the end it will just be a bad memory. Fotunately it happened in an area where the opposing force was the lead ballast so the bulge was kept to one side. Had it froze somewhere else and compromised both sides of the hull, well, maybe A-24 would have been someone else's dream. The whole story will unfold soon and for those who seek out pixels of others breathing in fiberglass, stay tuned. Tim

epiphany
02-06-2007, 03:09 PM
Congrats, Tim! Overall she looks great! I wonder what caused that bulge?

You mentioned you read about it at another site - where was that? I'd like to see what they said...

Can't figure out what would have caused it, unless one of the drinken Portu's of Pearson manufacturing fame ;) dropped a steel/iron tool down next to the ballast before it was glassed over, and then it later swelled while rusting, causing that. It will be very interesting to see what you find when you fix it up. :)

Topsides look nice and shiny! Katie is jealous, ;)

Welcome aboard, you're gonna love sailing her. :)

Tim Mertinooke
02-06-2007, 03:16 PM
Here is a link to the topic with replies.

http://triton381.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2319

ebb
02-06-2007, 04:24 PM
When you start grinding, if it smells sweet, it's polyester. Don't think epoxy would have broken like that (like what is swelling?), nor gotten so bulbous looking. If it is epoxy, it'll be very interesting to see what it is hiding.

338's Factory shoe was very corroded on one side - mostly because the DFO's rudder post was made with highly alloyed s.s. propshaft - that's what I think anyway. Really hard and showed zero corrosion.

Rudder shoe should be made of nearly inert silicon bronze, along with the rudder post. But it's possible other copper alloys were used.

Tim Mertinooke
02-06-2007, 04:35 PM
I am pretty sure it has not been previously repaired. The PO has owned the boat since 1974 and he was the second owner. WHen asked he told me that he hadn't tried to repair it so it is probably the original laminate.

I have seen the diagrams and have heard of the ills that come with the infamous voids. Is it possible to have water make its way in between the lead and the laminate from the voids, or is the lead pretty well sealed from the voids found fore and aft of it? My grinding finger is twitching...can't wait until she gets home.

ebb
02-06-2007, 07:38 PM
Sorry!
Somehow a correction became a double post....

ebb
02-06-2007, 07:38 PM
Don't have to take it from me, but it seems that lead ballast casting was lowered into the space designed for it in an Ariel with plenty of scrap cushioning and shimming using whatever lying around on the shop floor (as one one guy put it.) That wood (and maybe also wads of glass roving) has disintergrated over time - and space does exist around the ballast. ebb has gone on adnauseum about this and the Search mode will probably find that AND what others have contributed.

The ballast is secured, ie 'encapsulated', across the top of the lead - under the cabin sole - with multi layers of glass matt and polyester over it that crosses the space and tabs onto the hull both sides. This 'encapsulated' volume may or may not be isolated from the sump under the steps. But it more than likely has or has had gallons of water in it. If the hull is in relative good shape, the liquid in the encapsulated ballast area COULD have come thru the hull over the centuries, but it's more likely imco to have migrated there from the bilge area.

The search mode will find discussions on a number of configurations that evidently were used by the Factory for the space under the cockpit. Some like 338's were empty, others filled or sculpted in different ways.

It's pretty certain that water will find its way to the lowest point in the bilge and even into the laminate. It's merely a matter of drilling holes and letting the hull dry out. This also has been discussed on the forum and Search should find it.

It's my opinion that the Factory would NOT have delivered a new Ariel or Commander with the shoe covered in fiberglass. The rudder, also, is a traditional bronze and mahogany structure with not a stitch of glass or a smear of glue on it or around the post. LOTS on the rudder in discussion here. The original rudder is a holdover from wooden boat building practices, and is an exceptional work of craftmanship.

What we see in your fotos - on the face of it:o - at the end of the keel - doesn't look too professional. imco
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
A clew as to what may have happened to your Ariel's shoe may be similar to the experience with 338's. When it was removed, a bunch of crystalized stuff was discovered. Very strange. Much of it came off with the fitting. Stuck inside the shoe! But there seemed to be evidence that the fitting had been a problem because other bolts had been drilled thru it! NOT a good idea.

After examination it appeared that the very end of the keel over which the shoe is fitted did not have its glass layup pushed down far enough into the corner of the mold. The 'crystal' stuff was unreinforced polyester that had broken from the mother.

The bronze shoe was being held onto the hull with literally ONE stud thru actual frp. The one bolt furthest in. The others had penetrated only plastic. These thru bolts actually created the cracking, I believe, from the weight of the rudder pushing down on the shoe. It's amazing the shoe had stayed on there for 40 years! I put four studs thru the fitting when the new one was attached, believe the original had four also. Actually the bolts are peened rod.

Your Ariel may have a similar situation and the cracked muff in your foto may be a DFO's attempt at reinforcement without taking the thing apart.:rolleyes:

Tim Mertinooke
02-19-2007, 05:02 PM
Last Saturday was supposed to be the delivery day for A-24, but mother nature dumped a couple feet of snow on us. It looks like delivery will most likely be next weekend. My neighbors thought me a little weird when I spent all of yesterday afternoon shoveling my yard. Here are some photos of my last visit to her.

Nameplate of course. That will stay original without any touchups. Maybe just a careful cleanup of the PO's slop of white paint.

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Nameplate.JPG

One of the things I can't wait to do is rip off that terrible box made to hold the depth sounder display. The good news is that it is held on with only four screws and no 5200!


http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/deck%201.JPG

The finish on the mahogany is in pathetic condition, but the boat has been covered during it's layup and all the mahogany appears to lack rot. I won't know if it just looks bad or if I will need to mill up new coamings until they are removed.




http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Teak%201.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/teak%202.JPG


The interior looks like all the others that I have seen. This one however has no water stains through any of the deck hardware including the ports and chainplates. I took this as a good sign and I plan to rebed everything before she hits the water this summer.
http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/interior%201.JPG
Those who cannot see the beauty of a run-down sailboat in need of love that will require time, money, and epoxy in one's hair will never understand this grin on my face...ready about?

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/ready%20about.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
02-19-2007, 05:11 PM
Here are some photos of a couple mysteries I found on A-24. If anyone has any info regarding the "foam " that appears to be literally busting out of things I would appreciate it. Enlightenment please.

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/foam%20bilge%202.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/foam%20bilge.JPG

I didn't check the date on the newspaper, but I will once I see the boat again this week. If it says "1962" then some of my questions will be answered.
http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/what%20is%20this.JPG

mbd
02-19-2007, 05:13 PM
Is that last pic looking aft under the cockpit? Where's your bilge??

Looking forward to seeing #24 come back to life. Keep the faith!

c_amos
02-19-2007, 05:29 PM
It looks like the foam was mixed and dumped into the bilge to fill the void....

I wonder if that has anything to do with the bulge?

Keep the faith man, it will be spring someday, and you will be on the water and it will be worth the effort... :D

mbd
02-19-2007, 05:33 PM
Tim, RE: the foam, check out Bill's response #5 (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showpost.php?p=6185&postcount=5) in the keel voids (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=6185) thread...

Tim Mertinooke
02-20-2007, 03:36 PM
Is that last pic looking aft under the cockpit?


Yes, it was taken near the sole looking aft toward the rudder tube. The foam that expanded out of the tube appears to be the "Great Stuff" you can buy at the hardware store. Great choice; open-celled, non-waterproof...thank you PO! I plan to remove it and assess from there. If there is an issue with the tube leaking at all, it will be corrected via proven methods not foam and a prayer as someone apparently did before I.


Where's your bilge??

I was hoping you guys could answer that. It appears as though the deepest part of the bilge was filled. This should make my bilge pump plans more interesting. You guys are going to get a kick out of this once I get started and snap tons of photos of the process.


Looking forward to seeing #24 come back to life. Keep the faith!

Me too! Faith will not be lost. I have waited a long time to restore a boat like this ariel. She will be re-commisioned this summer and will be used extensively after these minor hic-cups are addressed. My CD Typhoon on the other hand came to me in near perfect shape leaving little to do to her. It got to the point where I was making up projects just to work on her. I replaced the static ports with opening ones, added extra cleats, varnished an outragous number of coats on the teak, etc. Finally I have a floating vixen who needs my love. I have a feeling this relationship will not be one-sided like the Ty's.

Tim Mertinooke
02-20-2007, 03:45 PM
In the Ariel the heel was molded as part of the hull and foam was subsequently poured into the back of the hull to fill this deep narrow area. It was then glassed over to prevent water from getting at the foam and to allow for easier cleaning. If you think there is water down in the back of the keel, I would drill a hole at the bottom below the foamed area, drain it, reseal it, and then
redo the glass job on the interior over the foam.


Mike,
This is hull #24, maybe the whole glassing over the foam idea wasn't part of the process yet. Drilling is certainly in my future with the possibility of a garboard type plug to drain at haulout each year. The plug I think is a prudent idea seeing how the temps around here can get pretty low.

joe
02-20-2007, 07:19 PM
Hi Tim,
I wonder if someone was trying to stop a leak?? I wish you the very best of luck and many congratulations on your purchase!!
Joe
S/V Sirocco

commanderpete
02-21-2007, 06:14 AM
"There is NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."

or something like that

Tim Mertinooke
03-10-2007, 09:36 AM
Made the hour drive to check out the boat a couple days ago when the temps were below zero. I must say that the more time I spend poking around this thing the more I love it. It strikes a perfect balance for my intended use...can't wait until summer. The bulge in the keel had some ice protruding out of it. I think the water expansion idea was correct. Does anyone know if the void in the aft part of the keel prone to water intrusion is open to the space between the hull and the lead ballast or is the lead ballast completely sealed from the void? I'm just trying to track the direction the water traveled to get a better idea of the what the abyss of my keel looks like. My plan is to add a plug at the bottom just in front of the shoe to drain the water that may collect every season. If it is all open down there, then the water that finds its way between the lead and the hull should drain from the plug aft of it assuming the boat is tilted back a tad. I think anyway...

I also picked away at the laminate covering the rudder shoe. It came off pretty easy with a screwdriver. There seemed to be a greenish grey fairing compound that was pretty well saturated covered by one layer of fiberglass which does seem to be non-factory as Ebb noted earlier. The shoe has a reddish caulk between it and the hull that was easy to peel out by hand. The shoe seemed just fine, no cracks, thin spots or corrosion that I could see and it is well attached to the hull with no play. The area did seem wet though with some evidence of water leaking out a little between the hull and the shoe where the ineffective caulk resided. The hull laminate was fine where the shoe was attached and didn't seem saturated. It's exposed to the air now so it should start to dry with the warmer weather coming, then I will assess what the next step with that will be. I wish the foot of snow we still have in the yard will just go away already.

bill@ariel231
03-10-2007, 12:12 PM
Tim

"is the lead ballast completely sealed from the void?"

in answer to your question, no...

I opened up the keel on A-231 from the rudder shoe all the way to the ballast. no evidence that the lead was " encapsulated" from the void. Construction shown in some vintage factory photos shows the hull molded in one piece and the lead dropped in from above. (see photo, the shot is from below looking forward - the gray object is the ballast, on the face of the ballast nearest the camera is the foam stuck to the lead)

Different story on the first three years of the Pearson Triton the early boats have the void added on after the hull was out of the mold.

there were three sources of water intrusion into my keel... leaks around the rudder shoe, holes in the bilge from previous owners attempt to install a bilge pump and incomplete wet-out of the fiberglass at the forward most part of the bilge (under the deck in the v-berth).

cheers,
bill

Tim Mertinooke
03-10-2007, 05:20 PM
Here I was fretting about what might be a 4" diameter hole in the side of my keel once grinding is complete and you show me a keel without a bottom. Misery loves company. Anyone who owns one of these beauties certainly likes working on boats. Everyone seems to have a drastic demolition somewhere in their history with these vessels. Thanks for the picture, it certainly answered my question.

joe
03-10-2007, 05:33 PM
If there is all that room around the lead, especially, below it, what in the world is holding that huge lead casting in place??

bill@ariel231
03-10-2007, 07:56 PM
my guess is it was held there by habit....:)

bill@ariel231
03-13-2007, 01:09 PM
now that I think about it, the pearson factory photo of a hull layup that i've seen was probably an Ensign/Electra .. it's in the book "The Lure of Sailing" by Everett Pearson. Moderator Bill do you have this image stored away somewhere??

joe
03-13-2007, 01:25 PM
:) :) :) :) :)

Bill
03-13-2007, 03:46 PM
. . . Moderator Bill do you have this image stored away somewhere??

Not that I know of. :confused:

bill@ariel231
03-14-2007, 04:49 PM
found it.. looks like an ensign/electra hull...

interesting thing in the old photo, not a single pair of gloves no masks or goggles.

quite a contrast with the current ensign build method, there is a slide show at the new class association web site that takes a boat from a bare mold to a finished boat (caution it's a 200Mb file)

http://www.ensignclass.com/NewBoats.htm

commanderpete
03-14-2007, 06:05 PM
Very cool ArielBill

Tim Mertinooke
03-19-2007, 05:23 PM
The ongoing battle to get A-24 to my house ensues as we received 1.5 feet of new snow last weekend on the day I planned on moving the boat and it is snowing hard again right now with another 6 inches forecast. I went down after work today to remove the aforementioned snow from the boat and snapped a couple more shots of the rudder shoe after stripping (quite easily I might add) the fairing compound and fiberglass sheathing. In a perfect world I will have enough time to take the shoe off and put it back on after epoxying, 5200, etc. before I put in this summer (July.) Depending how long it takes to commision the boat will determine whether I do the whole 9 yards on this repair, or just patchwork to get me through my anticipated two month season in the water this summer. As mentioned previously the shoe is solid and fixed very well to the keel. There was water weeping out of the shoe when I opened it up a while back and the area seemed much drier today. If the water trapped inside the keel void is going out then it must be able to...

One step at a time...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/capedorytyphoon/RudderShoeStarboardSide.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/capedorytyphoon/RudderShoePortside.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
03-19-2007, 05:34 PM
The coamings on A-24 were in pitiful shape in terms of finish and it wasn't until I removed the finish and got down to sanding that I knew their true condition. To my delightment I found no rot found anywhere on the coamings themselves. There was a little on the bottom of the pieces that touch the side of the cabin that the coaming screws into. The plan to fix that is to cut out the rotton part and glue up another piece of mahogany to match. I am fortunate to have a pretty good supply of mahogany from the same era that the Ariels were made because I got my hands on the remains of an old 1959 runabout that someone cut up. The wood looks identical once sanded so it should be a seamless fix. To remove the finish I used a heat gun with a steady, patient technique. I was able to remove all the finish on both coamings in about 1 hour. Then I sanded with a typical orbital sander, followed by hand sanding to prep for the varnish. Both coamings are now ready for varnish which should be started this coming weekend. Below is a picture of the half-way point with the heat gun and a couple comparison pictures after finishing the first coaming.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/capedorytyphoon/CoamingPrep.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/capedorytyphoon/Coaming2.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/capedorytyphoon/Coamings.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
03-25-2007, 04:10 PM
Ariel #24 made the 54 mile journey to my house with no incidents. The trailer and boat performed perfectly thanks in part to good planning and preparation. Now the projects begin starting with a marathon grinding session on that keel bulge. Don't worry, pictures will be coming.



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Transport%204.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Transport%203.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Transport%201.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/House%20Ariel.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
03-28-2007, 09:20 AM
I decided to attack the bilge last night and start to remove the foam to see what lurks below. The foam was pretty easy, although annoying to remove. It was well saturated a couple inches below the top which is what I expected as that is where water would travel. Beneath the foam were the two lead pigs everyone talks about. I removed them so that I could get a better angle and view. Now there is a nasty "Ariel Soup" that I'll remove today after work with the shop vac. I think that I am close to the bottom of the keel by my measurements. I still need to work my way back toward the aft part of the keel, but I think I am close. Once all the foam is removed, my thinking is that the entire keel void will have exposed itself with the exception of the space around the lead ballast. I'm mulling over my options thinking of a way to have a real bilge and prevent all the annoyances and damage caused by the original foam setup. I can't see how water can travel from the void I am removing foam from and the space around the lead where water obviously made its way due to the fact that its expansion bulged my keel. Some of you have glass over the foam which mine didn't.

1. Has anyone seen a bilge like mine with just foam?
2. Has anyone removed all of the foam from the top like I am?
3. Is it correct to assume that the entire keel void with the exception of the void around the lead ballast can be reached from the top where I have access?

In a perfect world all the gunk would be removed and I will have a smooth clean bilge that doesn't let anything in or out unless directed by me via a pump.


Before: Looking Aft

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%201.JPG

During

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge%202.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge%203.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge%204.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%208.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%209.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge5.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge%206.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/Bilge%207%20Lead%20Pigs.JPG

Bill
03-28-2007, 09:31 AM
If I'm evaluating the photos correctly, it appears that someone other than Pearson filled the factory bilge with foam, locking the two lead pigs into place.

mbd
03-28-2007, 09:37 AM
Nice work Tim. You don't waste any time! Must be nice to have have your new baby home, safe and sound. Congrats again!

"It is correct to assume that the entire keel void... can be reached from the top where I have access?" Only if you've got monkey arms. :p

Your bilge is looking a lot like mine. My lead pig will be removed from the bilge this season as well...

Tim Mertinooke
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Well, the bilge is empty with the exception of some foam up high where water never reaches it at the back of the keel. This foam is dry and sticks to the fiberglass walls of the bilge very well so I'll wrestle with it later. Here are some pictures:


I got this area dry with the shop vac and I noticed water seeping in around the laminate at the back side of the lead at the right of the picture. I hope to have the void around the lead ballast drained once I begin grinding the keel this weekend.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2012.JPG


This is looking through the access panel toward the back of the bilge where the rudder shoe is located. Tim L. told me that the flaking yellow resin that I thought was delamination is just extra resin gooped on in large amounts during construction to ensure complete saturation of the fibers and that it is structural insignificant.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2013.JPG


This is looking back at my new foamless, pigless bilge.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2014.JPG


After the area dries out and I remove the flaking yellow resin, My idea is to fill the bottom of the bilge will epoxy to bring it up level with the lead ballast so that I stop the transfer of water from the void around the ballast to the void in the back of the keel. My hope is that it will stop any water that tries to enter the bilge via the rudder shoe as well. The bilge will be deep as I do not intend on putting the lead pigs back in, but it will be completely exposed and I will have no mysteries or suprises...I hate surprises. By the way, my website is up and running, www.ariel24.com (http://www.ariel24.com) but I'm still getting it off the ground in terms of uploading pictures, descriptions, etc. Be patient. It will echo most of what is posted here really, I just wanted a place others can go to see the project. Tim

Tim Mertinooke
04-01-2007, 12:51 PM
Well, I attacked the keel bulge today to find its cause and was quite surprised to find this:

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/Keel%20bulge%201.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%202.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%203.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%204.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%205.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%206.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%207.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%208.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%209.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%2010.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%2011.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%2012.JPG


The last two photos shows what it looked like after chiseling out the lead for about 15 minutes. My plan is to have it flush by the end of this week. I would like to start laying up the glass sometime next week as well weather permitting.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%2013.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%2014.JPG

commanderpete
04-01-2007, 03:30 PM
That is odd.

I thought the foam poured in there did the damage. But, that lead trunnion would also leave a hard spot.

I might try to cut the lead back, maybe with an angle ginder and cut off wheel.

I would probably try to shove a bunch of glass under the bottom of the lead piece.

Ebay is a good place to find industrial scraps of heavy mat and cloth by the pound. Biax cloth with mat attached is the most useful. But, beware the ebay shipping crooks

bill@ariel231
04-01-2007, 06:31 PM
that's an interesting failure, was the that lead lump pushed out by some corroding rebar at the center of the ballast? The tear in the lead doesn't look like it was cast in place...

(just in case ebay doesn't work out, you may also want to look at www.jamestowndistributors.com or www.defender.com and similar sites for glass & mat. you won't need much material to get that spot back in shape).

tha3rdman
04-02-2007, 05:18 AM
If I'm seeing it correctly the lead grew 2 inches or better? WOW. It reminds me of the lava steps around some volcanos where the lava fractures and the pressure from below pushes each polygon up at differetn heights. The root cause of that would be interesting to know, corroding steel expands but I've never seen it push anything to that extreme. Thank you for the documentation of the dissection.

mbd
04-02-2007, 05:57 AM
I would think something is up on the opposite side of that lead bulge. Could be telling. It seems like the bulge is a symptom, not the cause. Just a thought.

Another thought: your boat has been out of the water a very long time, and was not very weather tight by the looks of things. I wonder if the repeated freeze/thaw cycle could have worked its way into a crevice in the lead casting and had its way with the lead over a number of years? (Looks like Bill posted while I was writing the edit...)

bill@ariel231
04-02-2007, 06:03 AM
Tim

you have some interesting forensic work ahead of you. I might guess something like rebar might have started the problem, opened a crack, let in some water, and a couple freeze/thaw cycles later we have the lead bulge your ballast demonstrates. would be interesting to see what you find if you drill into the cavity behind the lead bulge....

bill


p.s. mike, oops sorry about that:)

Tim Mertinooke
04-02-2007, 09:17 AM
My thought which is echoed by others here and elsewhere is that the lead casting allowed water inside and over the years during freeze-thaw cycles water that entered the ballast exploited a weak spot in the casting pushing it out.

From what I have been told by others, the casting Pearson did or had done for lead ballast was not perfect. If there was a void either from not bringing the entire mass up to melting point, or inconsistant cooling, it would make sense there could be cracks where water could pentrate the ballast. What is known is that the area was wet from my recent reclaimation of the bilge. I witnessed water trickling from the void between the keel and ballast to the aft keel void so there was certainly the right conditions to have water surround the ballast.

I too thought something must be going on with the other side initially, but when I tap and closely observe it, it seems to be fine. I really think it is water that was in the ballast that pushed out a section not something on the other side or there would be evidence of that. I have completed the chiseling so it is now level with the surrounding ballast. My plan is to drill into the ballast to see if any water drains or to see different color shavings which would indicate something other than lead being in the casting.

As I have said from the begining of my bilge project. I am going to try to seal the two voids from one another. If I do a good glass job, which I will, water won't enter from the outside. I am also going to grind of the old glass surrounding the aft part of the lead ballest visible when looking into the forward part of the aft keel void. I will glass it over with epoxy after prepping it, then build it up with thickened epoxy to make it as fair as I can. This should eliminate the water migration which will hopefully eliminate any water getting to the lead ballast.

There was mention in a previous post about water getting into the void between the lead and hull through the space beneath the sole of the v-berth. Does anyone remember that post or does anyone know how water could enter through from that area?

I do plan on removing the rudder shoe after recent revelations to rebed it so that it does not leak at all. Therefore eliminating the major highways water has been known to enter these wonderful vessels.

Last point: I love my boat and I am thoroughly enjoying this process believe it or not.

bill@ariel231
04-02-2007, 09:35 AM
Tim

I don't know about what other ariel owners have found but on A-231, there is a triangular section of glass at the forward edge of the ballast that was a source of water into the keel (directly below the vee-berth deck). In A-231's case, I was able to feel this section out with a dental mirror looking forward from the forward most bilge access plate. When I cut into the floor boards to repair the hull in that area (and drop in a teak grate), I found this forward most barrier to the ballast was composed of a couple layers of 6 Oz cloth and 1 inch of fractured resin. Lots of cracks in that surface allowed any water from the chain locker to find its way into the keel.

it's post 23 in this thread.
http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1230&page=2

I'll post a picture of the area less the grate if that helps.

cheers,
bill@ariel231

Tim Mertinooke
04-02-2007, 10:34 AM
Bill, I would very much like to see that photo you mention without the teak grate. I am making it my mission to have a boat that doesn't leak or have highways water can relocate to and from voids through.

bill@ariel231
04-02-2007, 04:26 PM
Tim

here's the location of Ariel231's leak under the vee berth....

cheers,
bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Was the water dripping from the anchor locker to that point and then to the ballast cavity? Can water that ends up in the space below the sole make it to the real bilge aft of there or does it pool up and hang out? This is the first time I've seen that space, thanks for posting that photo.

BTW- I removed the rudder shoe tonight and it is in great shape. There was a small amount of water dripping out of the holes the pins were in though. I'm going to let the area dry for a while then overdrill the holes, fill with epoxy. Redrill the correct sized holes then rebed with an obnoxioius amount of 5200. Fun Fun!

bill@ariel231
04-02-2007, 04:51 PM
Tim

as built, A-231 had a small pool for water collect forward of the ballast to a depth of 1 inch or so before cascading aft to the bilge. My extensive use of a garden hose below decks during construction and cleaning was one of the contributing factors to water reaching the bilge. One other source for a small contribution was the former outboard well (since removed on A-231) and some cracks in the cockpit locker drain system, plenty of cracks in the keel and false keel area (all since ground out and re-glassed).

You are on track with the removal of the rudder shoe. you may also want to do the same with the rudder strap (two bolts). This was another water entry point for me....

They don't call water the universal solvent for nuthin'...

have fun and don't forget to wear a mask...

Bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-04-2007, 12:26 PM
I removed the rudder shoe without any problems. The shoe is in great shape with no cracks or corrosion. The repair to this area will be straightforward and will be similar to what others have done (grind, coat with epoxy, fair, 5200, etc.)

Once the shoe is back on, is it a good idea to encapsulate it with glass and epoxy?

Is a zinc worth the effort if there has been no corrosion thus far?

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Rudder%202.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%201

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%202


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%203

This stuff was thick and nasty, but it peeled off easily. It was especially thick at the aft end of the shoe.

Should the keel be extended some with epoxy so that I can avoid having to use that much caulking in the back? It seems building it up aft with epoxy would provide more structure for the shoe to hold on to, especially considering its location to the shaft which is an area that would experience the most torque.



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%204

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%205

bill@ariel231
04-04-2007, 01:24 PM
Tim

we'll see how the voting from the other members works out..

for what it's worth, A-231's rudder shoe is bedded in epoxy (filling the whole of the shoe). I haven't seen a need to encapsulate the shoe.

I haven't installed a Zinc on the shoe, neither have I seen any ill effect from not having one. (the casting would turn pink in spots due to de-zincification)

cheers,
bill

p.s. nice work cutting back the keel growth A-24.

Tim Mertinooke
04-04-2007, 04:58 PM
"A-231's rudder shoe is bedded in epoxy (filling the whole of the shoe)."

Bill,

I'm assuming you used the epoxy as the adhesive that seals and holds the shoe in place. Did you coat the aft section of the keel with epoxy then set the shoe before the epoxy cured?

Did your method seal the area so that no water migrates into the bilge, if so I may be sold in which method to use?

I was thinking about setting the shoe in 5200 after coating the area with epoxy and waiting until the epoxy fully cured. I think that I am going to leave the shoe exposed as well. It's bronze so it should do its thing and protect itself. I'll be able to inspect it as well which is a very attractive feature to leaving it exposed.

Tim

bill@ariel231
04-04-2007, 07:05 PM
question -- "Did you coat the aft section of the keel with epoxy then set the shoe before the epoxy cured?"
yes, I filled the shoe with thickened epoxy and used a jack to hold it in position.

The stub on your keel looks good in the photos (At least no cracks are visible around the holes). either method (bedding in wet epoxy or 5200 will work) the 5200 is much easier to remove if you ever need to drop the rudder for repairs.

were I to do it again, I'd use 5200...

Tim Mertinooke
04-05-2007, 09:17 AM
"were I to do it again, I'd use 5200..."

Bill, Thank you for your experiences and insight. I think I'll go the 5200 route for the reasons mentioned earlier.

If only the weather would warm so that I can start laying up the glass...

Tim

Tim Mertinooke
04-05-2007, 07:11 PM
As I was looking in the bilge tonight I noticed some white powder near a few small holes in the laminate coating the bilge over the lead ballast. This area happens to be right above the area of the keel that I grinded last weekend. If the dust from grinding can make it up through these small holes, then water is certainly able to travel the other way. In a perfect world the the entire bilge will be covered with a coat of glass saturated in epoxy resin. The problem as we all know is limited access which makes prep work a nightmare. Pearson certainly threw these things together like they were in a hurry.


This Picture was taken through the middle bilge access panel. You can see the powder and if you look toward the bottom of the picture you can see a few small holes.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20leak%20area%201.jpg

Here is the same shot only zoomed in a little. You can clearly see the holes in this shot.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20leak%20area%202.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-06-2007, 12:26 PM
I removed all of the peeling fiberglass laminate from the rudder today. The mahogany appears to be in very good condition. I observed no rot it appears to be structurally solid. The upper and lower posts also appear to be in very good condition. I did not observe the corrosion I have seen mentioned by others.

I'm assuming these boats came off the assembly line with exposed mahogany rudders with maybe just a coat of paint on them. I am considering leaving it exposed like it is with the exception of a coat of bottom paint. Have others found this works, or have you tried other things such as encapsulating with epoxy and glass. The encapsulation thing seems to be a no-win battle as water always wins. It will also increase the rudder's weight making it more dense which creates an annoyance to whomever is at the tiller.

Some pictures:

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20before%201.jpg

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20before%202.jpg



The laminate came off in sheets this large indicating that it was not holding very well.

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20laminate.jpg

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20profile%20port.jpg

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/Rudder%20Profile%20Starboard.jpg


Some close-ups of the posts.
http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20close%201.jpg

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder/rudder%20close%203.jpg

ebb
04-06-2007, 06:22 PM
Have to say, that's an amazing find, that rudder, under all that fairing compound - or whatever it is. You did a beautiful job getting the crud off!
And what a reward to find a brand new four decades old rudder still there!
What varnish are you going to use?

Tim Mertinooke
04-06-2007, 06:33 PM
CPES? Or should I just leave well enough alone?

bill@ariel231
04-07-2007, 11:04 AM
your rudder is in such good shape it'd be a shame to slather on the epoxy. that said, mine is epoxied with no ill effects. 10 years of service and a-231's rudder is still dry inside. may be it's luck, but i took the precaution of cutting a notch in the epoxy where the rudder shaft passed thru the rudder's skin and smeared some 5200 on the joint.

Tim Mertinooke
04-07-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks again Bill your experiences are helping me make some choices.

After doing some research, I am seriously considering coating the rudder with CPES until it refuses to accept anymore, then creating a barrier coat on top of that with a thin coat of West System Epoxy. This should prevent (or at least slow down) water intrusion and stiffen the rudder a little. Structurally it might not make that much difference as it will only be resins no glass. I am going to remove the rudder this week so that I can take it indoors where it will dry out better. I have a little while before the temperatures reach epoxy heights so I'll sit on it a while longer and do more research.

Bill
04-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Have you reviewed the rudder thread?

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=576

Tim Mertinooke
04-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Now that the bilge is cleared of all debris, cleaned out, and dried, and the rudder shoe is removed, I decided to do a little experiment to see if water in the bilge could migrate out through one of the pin holes in the rudder shoe area. The result made itself known about an hour after pouring a gallon of water in the bilge. See below.



http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20leaking.JPG

bill@ariel231
04-10-2007, 10:46 AM
that looks familiar..

A-231 had the same issue when I opened the keel void. water was entering the keel from the shoe and the rudder strap. I had to drill the holes oversize, fill with epoxy and re-drill to make the shoe leak free.

ebb
04-10-2007, 10:56 AM
Tim, Very confusing shot. It is not clear at all where the removed rudder shoe was mounted, as one would expect to see dapped out areas?

The ruddershoe mounting area on 338 had to be totally rebuilt. Also the factory molding of the thick sections in the keel area may have cooked and frothed creating porosity. Consider a barrier coat.

bill@ariel231
04-10-2007, 11:13 AM
ebb

I think this is the scale of his picture...

bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-10-2007, 11:47 AM
Ebb, here is a shot that shows the area the shoe fits on before I cleaned it up.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20removal%205

The condition of this area is different from what I expected after reading about other's experiences. Let's just say I was pleasantly surprised. You can see more pictures and a detailed description of my plan at www.ariel24.com (http://www.ariel24.com) . Just click on the projects section, then"rudder shoe". The site is updated in terms of projects, but the other sections still need to be added. I wish I didn't have to sleep everyday, I could accomplish so much more.

Tim Mertinooke
04-10-2007, 11:54 AM
One more showing what it looked like after I grinded the area.

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20prepped.jpg

ebb
04-10-2007, 12:42 PM
Hello Tim,
From the looks of the color of the stuff there and what you found elsewhere, notably on your rudder, it looks like a DFO has spent considerable time 'restoring' your Ariel. I would say an owner did the work rather than a professional because of what your forensics found.

Photos of your keel and rudder show extensive use of filler of some sort. I hope your are lucky and that the goop was epoxy based. You can find out by grinding on some of it that you have removed. If it has the characteristic sweet smell of polyester/bondo, it is a filler, NOT a structural fairing compound. Someone else may have an opinion if it is vinylester. Which is a polyester with epoxy in it - and may perform quite well structurally in a paste. I don't know.

I drove 1/2" bronze lags up into the heel befor it was remolded with the shoe (as evidently was done with yours) put in position as the material set up. 338's glob was filled with glass fiber. I would dig a little in that grey stuff to find out what it is doing there.

As I've noted elsewhere the fitting on 338 was held on by one bolt when I got her - the remaining pins went thru plain polyester that had broken into chunks with various attempts to reattach the fitting that had obviously sagged - because there was no fiberglass there. Extra thru bolts had been drilled thru the heel as well - without effect. It's hard sometimes to comprehend what people do. Covering the keelfitting in unreinforced fairing compound may have been an attempt at insurance. Because your baby had similar issues to 338's. Some puttys are pretty strong, maybe you should test some of the stuff you removed in chunks.

The putty/filler/goop/compound can't be all bad, as it evidently did an amazing job preserving the mahagony on the rudder. But ofcourse that may be a rebuild job as well (I mean it looks almost NEW!) - and no doubt crafted by an artist!

c_amos
04-10-2007, 12:59 PM
The putty/filler/goop/compound can't be all bad, as it evidently did an amazing job preserving the mahagony on the rudder. But ofcourse that may be a rebuild job as well (I mean it looks almost NEW!) - and no doubt crafted by an artist!<!-- / message -->

I was thinking the same thing. Faith is up on the hard right now, and I have spent a bunch of quality time with her rudder. It looks no where near as nice as that, but it does have the cut out (just like yours) that make them both seem original. I do notice that there is no seam in yours. Mine, and most I have looked at here have a fairly pronounced gap between the panels. Maybe yours is not open since the rudder was so well protected.

Tim Mertinooke
04-10-2007, 02:07 PM
The previous owner bought the boat in 1974 and told me the rudder was laminated when he bought it. He also told me he never removed the rudder shoe so I'm assuming the rudder/shoe rehabilitation occured before he bought it and both were probably done at the same time (late 60's early 70's?) It seems interesting to me that someone would have gone through so much trouble to laminate a "new" mahogany rudder and a "new" bronze shoe. Maybe there was damage done by a grounding or something, but the shoe shows no evidence of that. If a rudder shoe leak led to the modifications, why did he leave all that nasty foam, etc in the bilge?

The grey color seems to be consistent for this boat's gelcoat. Areas where paint has worn in the transom and on the deck exhibit the same color, as well as areas of keel that I ground. To me it looks like the gelcoat found elsewhere on the boat. I do plan on removing the material until I get to fiberglass. This will allow me dry it out and see if any delamination took place as it was wet for a long time. Compare the colors of the mystery material in the two photos. Did they gelcoat the heel of the keel where the shoe is located or was it bare fiberglass?

http://www.ariel24.com/images/keel%20bulge/flush%20keel%201.JPG

http://www.ariel24.com/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20prepped.jpg

ebb
04-10-2007, 04:00 PM
dunknow Tim,
Looking at it, by design, how could the fitting leak? It has to go thru solid material. Just forward of it maybe, that is where I too drilled some 'drainage' holes straight up and got 'dry' frp. Drilled two DEEP holes. Then I drilled one thru the side couple inches up and got lucky. Drilled into the sump. That's when I first discovered how thick 338's hull is. Not! There seems to be considerable differences in Ariels. Refilling the deep holes underneath took some thinking too! Side holes, of which I made a few, cause I filled the keel void, are more accessable and can be sealed with a bit of mat over the dished hole and faired.

If I remember correct: the keel holes remained wet for a long time, the side drain hole didn't produce any water, but the holes drilled into the ballast keel area drained a little bit for the longest time. Months. I figured the LAMINATE itself did do a little bit of draining. More like drying. But VERY minimal. Like water under pressure getting into imperfections. If the bottom of the keel gets really cruched somewhere, it's possible delamination could occur that would let in water, even if it still appeared to be in good shape.

I also found water in the filler block encapsulated in the upright keel molding where the rudder swings, it's opposite the hole in the rudder in outboard models. Nobody ever talks about it. That water did enter thru the factory encapsulation and as an entry point could explain some of the water problems a coupla feet below it inside the rudder shoe. I didn't explore it and it seems farfetched. Like the rudder, all rudders being built the same whether for an inboard or outboard Ariel - I would think the hulls were all built the same, and therfore the propeller aperture would be gellcoated along with the rest of the hull, and a filler blank would merely be pasted in place. No interior connection.

Tim Mertinooke
04-11-2007, 04:52 AM
I did a quick inspection grind last night to see if the aft part of the keel was indeed fiberglass or built up with some other material. It is indeed glass all the way back and the grey material I really believe is gelcoat. It was the same thickness/consistancy as other areas I have grinded on this boat. The four pin holes show that the area has been wet for some time as there is discoloration around each of them. I'm sure water entered the laminate where the discoloration is, but the integrity of the area I don't believe is compromised. I plan on grinding out with a dremel all of the rotten area (I feel like a dentist), then letting the area dry for a while before filling the ground out areas with epoxy.

Interestingly enough the dripping from the shoe area had stopped last night and I vacuumed my bilge so that it was completely dry. Then I drilled the four pin holes with a drill bit twice the diameter of the original holes to gauge how soft the area was. It seemed solid except for where the bit travelled through the discolored glass which was to be expected. When I went to work this morning I noticed some water had leaked through and frozen last night. I think drilling those holes helped the water escape faster and that grinding out the discolored glass will help dry the laminate out even faster. Ultimate goal: no water entering or leaving my hull from anywhere unless I tell it too.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20ice.JPG

ebb
04-11-2007, 07:53 AM
Gotta love a mystery!
Have to follow where the evidence leads, as Gil Grissom reminds us, not where we think it ought to go.
Gel coat will be dead white. Or darkish blue below the waterline as some owners have found. Translucent greenish stuff is plastic, either polyester or epoxy. Either plain or cloth in it or some kind of filler.

I'm positive, I'm convinced I'm positive, that coming from the factory, the only stuff that fitting would have over it is maybe bottom paint.
Who knows what happened in 45 years?? Very strange!

Tim Mertinooke
04-11-2007, 08:35 AM
Like I mentioned before the area seems structurally solid. I will grind the area down to the glass, then drill out the rotten laminate, dry, fill with epoxy, and then coat the area with epoxy, finally bedding the shoe with 5200. This should do the trick as it has worked for others.

"Gotta love a mystery! Have to follow where the evidence leads"

I call it brain candy. Every active mind needs a futile project to spar with and I'm no exception.

Tim Mertinooke
04-14-2007, 07:24 PM
I removed the rudder today after first removing the rudder strap and tiller cap. The removal went as planned. I cleaned up the upper and lower shaft to get a closer look and they look great. The rudder having dried for a week now has begun to check a little bit, but it's shape is good and the checking is localized to one area on one side. I've decided to laminate the rudder with epoxy and cloth. If a shady job 40 years ago with polyester worked, epoxy done right should last another 40.

Beneath the rudder strap was an extra hole presumably drilled by Pearson. It was at a weird angle so I'm assuming it was a first failed attempt to mount the strap. This extra hole would have certainly let water into the keel void. You can see in one of the photos below that there is a small opening in the center. THere was no bedding compound either. I'm amazed this boat floated as evidence lets itself be known from removing these items.

The rudder strap has a good amount of wear and I may use it again, but would prefer not too. Does anyone know of a source for bronze stock that could used to make a new one? Also, the pins that I tapped out of the shoe and the strap are in poor shape. They are all bent from tapping them out and the ends needed to be drilled to remove them so they are too short to be re-used anyway. I suppose I could use a bronze bolt with the head cut off and just peen the ends. Anyone try this?

BTW-My new Nissan 6HP 4-stroke gets delivered to my house Monday. Yippie! Just in time for our spring Nor'easter.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%201.jpg

You can see the extra hole in this picture. The extra hole was the same diameter as the other two holes, but this picture was taken after I had drilled out the two used to hold the strap. The laminate was solid with no evidence of laminate saturation.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%202.jpg


Look closely in the hole and you can see on the right where water would travel into the bilge.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%204.jpg



This is after grinding the area and drilling the extra hole. The plan is to prep and fill the area with epoxy making the future holes sealed from the bilge. You can see another place water could have entered in this photo on the right.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%203.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-14-2007, 08:10 PM
As mentioned in the previous post, I cleaned up the rudder shaft so I could get a better look and gauge its condition more accurately. I started to remove the filler placed at the access points for the bolts that tighten the rudder. I don't plan on adjusting the rudder at all and I am considering leaving these areas unfilled. I am going to leave the rudder in the house for a while to give it a better environment to dry before laminating.


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20removed%201.jpg


Here are some close-ups showing the condition of the upper shaft.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20upper%20shaft%202.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20upper%20shaft.jpg




Lower shaft.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20lower%20shaft%201.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20lower%20shaft%202.jpg




This is the localized area that checked a little while drying.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20checking.jpg

ebb
04-15-2007, 07:41 AM
Tim,
Great detailed photos!!

Check the rudder bolts if you can for deteriation of either at the rudder shaft. Different alloys could have been used there. The same can be said of the shaft where it sits unseen inside the tube where there is (dead) air and captured water. Many rudders have had corrosion there (as I understand it.) This is covered in the Manual.

The gudgeon strap is interesting. Looks like there is bottom paint under where it was mounted? The extra hole is mystifying because it is so off!
If there was some evidence of a second hole then of course there had to have been another strap there at one time.

If you haven't noticed here yet, I'm a believer in Silicon Bronze (Everdur 655) for under salt water applications. If your boat is a salt water boat imho you can assume the bronze you have there in such good shape is 655 and all the other parts as well. (This may not be the case with the rudder shoe.)
I have some 2" wide strips (bar) of s.b. It's definitely 'soft' enough to be bent into a U. The stuff is a true 1/8". But it looks like your strap is thicker.
(If interested, get in touch thru the 'private messages, up above here.)

Your shot of the strap shows good gold color, the chamfer, if that is original, looks like it was just done!! The rudder shoe on 338 was fastened with peened bronze rod. The trouble with that was/is available bronze rod is hardened somewhat. The normal stuff. I'm sure that there is soft peening rod somewhere, but you probably have to buy 20' of it. Is there a boat shop near you? What do you need, 6" of it? I peened the regular stuff and it was a PITA. I clamped on a big ole hunk of plate on the other side and banged away. Like with a hero peening hammer! There's no cheat so you've got the get the length of the thru pins just right.

'Luxury' machine shops have to buy lengths of material that have to be stored.
A shop that does boat work has to have the exact stuff you need.

The pins are doing minimal 'work' so imco the chamfers should be quite small and not deep. It is better to have some material to peen against. A smaller head would make it easier to remove later. Like I say, you're not going to get much of a head with off the shelf s.b. rod. Annealing the rod must be real easy to do. All you have to do is heat it to 900-1200 degrees. Tell us how to do it, OK? Next time.

Tim Mertinooke
04-17-2007, 02:05 PM
My new Nissan 6hp 4-stroke was delivered to my house on Monday. Today I dragged it up to the cockpit and placed it in the motor well to see how it fits and as expected it fit perfect.

Since I have not been able to start laying fiberglass due to the temps and the fact that it has not stopped snowing, sleeting, and raining for the past five days I decided to start ripping the outboard well apart. When I first looked at the well I noticed some fiberglass that was delaminating from the plywood. The test hole I made showed the area to be very wet and there was a gasoline smell coming from the hole. I started by just peeling the laminate off of the plywood. Some of it came off easy, but most of it required a chisel, hammer, wonder bar, and back pain to get it off. I just dangled my legs out of the well and went for broke.


Here is a picture from the initial inspection made last December.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%201.jpg


This was taken today. It was raining while I was doing this which made a nasty job even nastier. You can see the Ariel soup that I have encountered in other parts of this boat.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%202.jpg


A little more progress. This was slow going for the most part but very rewarding because progress was obvious.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%203.jpg


The chisel and hammer mixed with careful technique worked well. The gasoline smell was very strong at this point and the pieces of foam and plywood I removed created slicks in the water seen below.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%204.jpg


The water and debris was removed with shop rags that were thrown out. I worried the gas smell would never leave my shop vac had I tried it.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%205.jpg



This is what it looked like after removing the rest of the laminate, plywood and foam. The gas smell was very strong even after I removed the water and debris. I filled up the well with water and dish soap and scrubbed and rinsed a few times. The smell was gone and I'm sure the grass under the boat will never grow again.http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%206.jpg




The rain stopped for about ten minutes so I dried the area and took a grinder to it. There will be more grinding to prepare it for paint. I was thinking bilgecoat. Has anyone else tried that type of paint in the well or is there something better?
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/outboard%20well/outboard%20well%207.jpg



All in all it was a nasty job, but once I finish prepping and painting, it will be worthy of the new engine and functional. I need to figure out how to keep my tanks level, I was thinking about an insert that can be removed so that I can change the configuration of the well to accomodate the engine laying sideways when I'm not there. I have a plug too which will also be used while I am not there.


BTW- with the right seat this could constitute the enclosed head I dream of in an Ariel.

Westgate
04-17-2007, 02:30 PM
Tim,

Picture two reminds me of a soup I ate once :eek:

I was surprised how "shallow" the new space under the old laz floor appeared. I always figured there was more room down in those nether regions. Maybe it's the perspective??

So are you going to glass in a new sub-floor or just leave it as is?

I think the wonder bar is one of the best tools ever made and your clever use chalks up yet another application!

Great job and really nice pictures.

Andrew

Tim Mertinooke
04-17-2007, 02:38 PM
That exact wonder bar and hammer were responsible for 90% of the demolition involved for our new kitchen.

"are you going to glass in a new sub-floor or just leave it as is?"

As is. I don't like unknowns, surprises or nether regions. I envision some sort of insert to keep my tank level and that's it. Also, there is a drain, but it in an awkward place that you can't inspect or reach when the engine is in the well. I'm not sure where or what, but a new drain of some sort is in order.

ebb
04-18-2007, 08:05 AM
Could put a oneway drain into the OB well at your inside's lowest point. Could build that low point up a bit with epoxy filler so that low point will always stay drained. How about a teak or mahogany slatted deck replacement so you can have a place to sit gas cans, lunch hook, line, OB wellhole lid. etc?

I remember the pungent odor of gasoline when the lazarette deck was being removed!

You gotta seal that bulkhead there!!!

If you are not racing, where does the OB live when not in the hole?

Tim Mertinooke
04-18-2007, 08:32 AM
"Could build that low point up a bit with epoxy filler so that low point will always stay drained"

Read my mind. I'll put that West System to good use :>)

"If you are not racing, where does the OB live when not in the hole?"

It fits sideways in the motor lazarette and at 55 pounds it should be no problem to take it out. There have been outboards stolen where I keep the boat in the past and a little lock on a lazarette cover will not deter a determined thief. If the lazarette is locked with the plug in the motor well, it should remove the temptation for the cancers in our society who take others' things.

"How about a teak or mahogany slatted deck replacement so you can have a place to sit gas cans, lunch hook, line, OB wellhole lid. etc?"

Yeah, I'm still working it out in my head, but that's the idea. I've started to draw up some ideas and I like the versitility of open compartments (slats.)

Tim Mertinooke
04-18-2007, 08:38 AM
"You gotta seal that bulkhead there!!!"

Do you mean the plywood bulkhead between the cockpit the lazarette? I peeled off the laminate and there is a large area of wood exposed. I think I'll let it dry out for a while then figure out what to do. Maybe one layer of cloth saturated in epoxy? I want to paint the inside of that lazarette a nice white so that it is smooth and easy to clean. Bilgecoat or something else? What did you use Ebb?

ebb
04-18-2007, 09:14 AM
I'm crazy and I overbuild (see the Gallery.)
On 338 that bulkhead was VERY badly fitted. I had access under the cockpit and could wedge myself up close it. The factory had glassed it badly as well. They had bridged gaping edges with tabbing, or not at all - I found still raw (white) fabric and roving under the inside of the deck. They had only tabbed it, the rest was unseald plywood. No rot.

I glassed the surface and retabbed the inside,
[where I also reinforced the rudder tube.
I believe water also got in at the under cockpit sole/rudder tube join. There was NO reenforcement there.]
Now that I think about it: The cockpit sole flexes, therefor seal that joint with rubber.

Also did the same in the laz.
Can't remember if the bulkhead was glassed over or just tabbed. I think DFO's trired to seal it with doubtful remedies.

While I noted some rot-like deterioration of the plywood decking in the laz, none was found on the bulkhead - even where the sodden foam was. My suggestion for this phenomenon is that there was prpbably saltwater encapsulated under the decking - but the little deck was more prone to fresh water accumulation.
It should be glassed imco, especially now that you've open it up to expose the 'V'.
I'm for glassing to tie it all together and extra epoxy sealing insurance.

Found that I could reach up thru the well hole standing outside. That helped...sort of... could see up under there, get an arm in - instructive! Scrape out ancient dribbles of frozen snot, find where the top of the paper pattern should be, or push sticky wet fabric in place. Cuss-n-carry on.

Like I say, I believe in paper patterns which allow you to cut the glass fabric pretty precisely. And I like the X-matt stuff because it stays stiff like cardboard when dry - and if you decide to put it in wet, if you're carefull, it will keep its shape. Even if darts have been cut into it to get it to fit in corners. Totally different thing than woven fabric. And if you've marked reference lines on it you can position the stuff exactly how your paper pattern said to, wet or dry.

That end of the cockpit bulkhead has had a history of leaks for OB people on the Forum - it is an always wet lazarette It even leaks across the TOP under the sheet traveler bridge. So I double sealed the damn thing.
I also incorporated the whole end of the cockpit inside - since I believed the cockpit could use some more support - by closing off most of the space between the cockpit well and the bulkhead. Crazy, I know!

But leaks now? HAH! Don't think so!

bill@ariel231
04-18-2007, 10:40 AM
Ebb

I had the same experience with a loosely installed bulkhead between the lazarette and the cockpit. On one particularly breezy day I ended up with a bilge full of water from the outboard well drain finding it's way around&over the bulkhead and into the bilge. water was above the cabin sole before we noticed the problem.

folks who still have outboard wells might want to make sure the bulkhead is sealed right up to the deck. a small gap at deck level was the path from my outboard locker to the bilge....

cheers,
Bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-19-2007, 06:57 AM
Well, after a week of neverending precipitation and temps too low to epoxy, it looks as though mother nature is taking pity on me. Last night I layed up the initial layers on my porch that will be flexed into place behind the hull and be adhered using thickened epoxy. This will allow me to have a solid flush layer to begin laminating against while maintaining the inch or so gap between the lead and the hull.


This is the laminate after it cured overnight. It shows the half inch overlap. This piece will be flexed and placed in the space between the hull and lead ballast and then adhered to the backside of the hull with thickened epoxy. Doing this increases the number of epoxy saturated layers that adhere to the chamfered polyester resin. This will make a more seamless repair flush on the front and backside. It also creates a flat and secure surface to work against making the job easier. Once the epoxy cures I will start the layup. Could be later today, could be tomorrow depending when it is solid enough to work against.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%201.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-19-2007, 08:58 AM
The piece fit well as expected. I have five wires holding it in place until the thickened epoxy cures, at which time the area will be coated with a thin coat of thickened epoxy so that it is fair with the backside of the hull. Then the area will be prepped and then the laminating begins. I'm going to miss the lead view I have so much enjoyed over the past few weeks.

The copper wire was already attached when the disk was flexed into position inside the hull and immediately pulled tight.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%202.jpg


With the disk secured by the middle copper wire it stayed in position. I then attached the other four wires which pulled it evenly squishing the epoxy out.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%203.jpg


The excess epoxy was then removed.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%204.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%205.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%206.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%207.jpg

joe
04-19-2007, 09:00 AM
THat is some damn fine work Tim, my hat's off to you :)

mbd
04-19-2007, 09:33 AM
Nicely done Tim! Thanks for all the pics and updates. Looks like #24 has found herself an excellent new home. Looking forward to seeing your continuing progress.

BTW, not to side track things, but I'm curious: how has the topsides paint job held up? I know the PO had it done at an automotive shop. It certainly opens up a whole lot of color options over the standard marine paints.

Tim Mertinooke
04-19-2007, 12:54 PM
The epoxy has set so I removed the wires that were holding the disk in place. The plan is to mix up a little more epoxy with filler and coat the disk so that it is fair with the backside of the hull. Then I will let that completely cure overnight. In the morning I'll remove the amine blush, sand the area fair, then prep, and finally begin laminating. I figure there will be close to fifteen layers of glass to bring it close to flush with the outside of the hull. Then I'll put a nice thin smooth coating of epoxy with filler to cap it off. Then bottom paint and I'll be done with this keel bulge thing.


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%208.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%209.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-19-2007, 01:36 PM
I coated the disk with a thin layer of thickened epoxy, then faired as well as I could. With it being on a vertical surface fairing was a little difficult. I imagine there will be a small amount of light sanding with my random orbital tomorrow once the epoxy has cured. This will create that nice surface flush with the backside of the keel that the future laminate gets adhered too. Plus the area is now sealed off which feels good. Hull for A-24 is regaining its integrity!

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2011.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2012.jpg

frank durant
04-19-2007, 01:41 PM
Looks GREAT !! Thank you!! I have put off a restoration of my electra too long..it will happen this year. I have a long hole in the keel and your idea is much better and simpler than what I had planned.These sites really are trully valueable to all who use them. Thanks for sharing...keep up the great pics and work

Tim Mertinooke
04-19-2007, 01:56 PM
Frank the idea was Don Casey's. He gives a detailed step-by-step procedure about how to fill a hole like this without inside access. When I read it it made perfect sense so I decided that was the road I was taking. The book is Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair (http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Hull-Deck-Repair-Casey/dp/0070133697/ref=sr_1_1/102-3058406-5117753?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177027853&sr=8-1). The repair is coming along nicely and so far I am happy with the results. I had half a mind to begin laying up some glass tonight, but I don't want to generate too much heat from the exothermic reaction curing epoxy creates.

BTW- This is a question for those who have laminated with epoxy. I decided to use cloth to laminate all of the layers for my repair due to the fact that I have seen other repairs done this way, I have a published source stating that this works, and it is what I have on hand. How many layers can I get away with laminating at a time so that there is not too much heat generated. Four? Ten? More?

frank durant
04-19-2007, 02:50 PM
I've done 7 with no problems using West Epoxy and cloth. I don't know at what point it goes "tilt" ??

Hull376
04-19-2007, 03:58 PM
Tim, Bill, ebb,

I never "dug" into the floor of the outboard well, and was going to take a peek by drilling a couple of holes through which I could remove any wet foam. These posts seem to indicate that its about a 100% certaintly that there is water under the outboard well floor, and that there is a high probability that the bulkhead was tabbed quickly and without much attention to detail. So that means that I'll probably wind up demolishing the whole floor, sealing the bulkhead all the way around, as ebb recommends, and then deciding whether or not to put in another floor. And what was the point of the outboard well floor? Was it needed to allow the outboard well to have a self draining system (that hole). Am I on track here with what you guys are saying?

Also, can I do this with the boat in the water? Any risk of water coming up through the bottom with the floor removed (I can't see how unless the hull has a hole in it! But then me with a blunt instrument and a hammer in my hand so close to the hull laminate sounds like a disaster waiting to happen---- abandon ship!!! she's been holed!!! where's that Dutch Kid when you need him???).

Bill
04-19-2007, 04:33 PM
And what was the point of the outboard well floor? ... Any risk of water coming up through the bottom with the floor removed

Without a floor, water will collect in the open space with no where to go, but maybe into the bilge if there is an opening. The floor also provides a level area for the fuel tank and storing the ob. Search for other discussions on the ob well.

Tim Mertinooke
04-20-2007, 09:39 AM
I sanded the area this morning and made a nice spoon in the thickened epoxy that I smeared on last night. I tried to make the chamfer consistent from the center to the outside perimeter. It's now ready for the laminate and epoxy.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2017.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2018.jpg


Then I cut out the fiberglass pieces that would be laminated. I will laminate the largest piece first following by successively smaller pieces. Then it will be coated with thickened epoxy.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2013.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2016.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-20-2007, 09:46 AM
After prepping the area, I coated it with epoxy and placed the first saturated piece of laminate on. I then applied three more layers. I decided to do four layers at a time as I have not laminated with epoxy before and I don't want it to "cook" which would weaken it. The only problem I had, and it really wasn't a problem, was the layers were trying to slide (very, very slowly) down the vertical repair. I just kept rolling and spreading until it stayed in place on its own (10 minutes.)

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2014.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2019.jpg

In a couple hours I'll laminate four more layers.

Tim Mertinooke
04-20-2007, 01:28 PM
In total I applied 16 layers of fiberglass. The reason for the high number of layers is that I decided to use the 3oz. cloth I had on hand. Perhaps not the best choice of cloth and it was time consuming, but the repair integrity will be good. In fact, I am willing to bet that part of the hull is the strongest part of the hull. The area is pretty fair, but once the last few layers kick I'll smear on a thin thickened epoxy coat. This will be allowed to cure overnight, then I'll remove the amine blush, sand, fair with one last thin coat of epoxy, sand smooth, paint, then I'll be done!


16 layers of fiberglass reinforced epoxy.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2020.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2021.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-20-2007, 02:25 PM
I coated the repair with a thin layer of thickened epoxy to make it fair. It required only a little which is satisfying. Tomorrow I'll sand, see how fair it is overall. If it needs one more thin coat and sanding it will get it, if not I'll be done!

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2024.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2023.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-21-2007, 07:08 AM
I removed the amine blush this morning, sanded the area smooth and then put the last sheen of thickened epoxy to fair it perfectly smooth. Once it cures I'll rough the area up a little then slap on the red bottom paint. How long does one need to wait before the repair can be painted?

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2026.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2027.jpg

Look at that!
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2025.jpg

frank durant
04-21-2007, 10:15 AM
NICE work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

epiphany
04-22-2007, 04:08 AM
Great work and execution, Tim. Yer boat, she's happy. :)

Re: glassing the rudder - the local shrimp boat captains might have a technique which you should ponder. When their old wooden hulls get glassed, they do it this way, which, since it works good for working vessels of indeterminate age which get not a lot of attention so long as they float, should be a good option for us recreational boaters:

Apply 3M 5200 to the wood with a trowel, smoothing it out to have an even coating.

Smoosh a layer of cloth into the 5200, wetting it out fairly well and evenly. I imagine that you'd want to take the time/effort to make it nice and even as possible.

Once that layer is applied all over, poly/vinyl/epoxy in a normal manner over top of the now-glass-reinforced 5200.

The 5200 will bond with the resin well, while allowing for some flex and/or expansion in the wooden substrate.

I think it might also be effective at sealing off all the little crevices where water would otherwise try to get around and under a stiff layer of FRP.

As far as I know, this treatment does not need a completely dry wood underneath it to be effective - shrimpers cannot afford to leave their boats on the hard for months waiting for complete drying. If you have any questions, I will go and pose them to the boatyard which does this job to see what they have to say about it.

My internet access is, at best, intermittent of late, so don't despair if you ask and the answer is slow in coming - I am at the whim of the 802.11b/g Gods,. ;)

Keep up the good work!

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 05:10 AM
Kurt thanks! After a little more research about laminating the rudder I decided to leave well enough alone at least for this coming season. I'm going to leave it as is for now and put it back on once I finish attaching the rudder shoe, strap, etc. My season will be realtively short this year in the water. We are putting the boat in toward the middle of June and will take her out in the beginning of September. My wife, son, and I will have two months every summer to really use her and this summer being our first with the boat will be a series of shakedown cruises aimed at seeing what we want onboard, what needs to be fixed, replaced, etc. I'm going to pull her out in September so that I have a couple months of epoxy weather to do more projects. We live about two hours from where we will keep the boat during the summer and having her on a trailer allows me to bring her home for just a tank of gas. It has been priceless to have her in the yard in terms of getting work done. The following summer after sprucing her up and working through some more projects this fall she'll go in in May and come out the middle of October. We plan on doing a nice extended Maine cruise that summer with the time we have off. Anyway, I'll check the condition of the rudder after my "short" season this year and gauge what to do next. If it's in great shape I'll leave it alone, if not I may just use your idea it sounds pretty bulletproof.

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 05:37 AM
While waiting for the epoxy to do its thing yesterday I scraped the bottom paint off of a couple spots at the aft end of the keel just above the rudder strap (see pic one.) What I found was interesting and perplexing (two feelings I have often these days working on A-24) at the same time. There is a purple substance that I have also found a few other places on the boat filling what appears to be a hole or something. This filler material is extremely hard. In the center of the material as seen in pic two and three there is a hole. I was able to shove an exploratory stick way up, so there is clearly space there. There are two areas like this. Does anyone know what I am looking at? Do these holes allow water into the bilge? How did A-24 stay afloat before me?

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strange%20hole%201.jpg


The hole can be seen in the center of the purple filler and goes straight up.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strange%20hole%202.jpg


Here is a closer shot.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strange%20hole%203.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 11:58 AM
Before
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20one.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20two.JPG



AFTER

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2030.jpg



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/keel%20bulge/keel%20bulge%20repair%2031.jpg

bill@ariel231
04-22-2007, 05:03 PM
Tim

Nice job on the keel repair!

I've also encountered the same blue chalk/polyester mess in several locations on my boat. I think the folks at pearson must have been using carpenter's chalk to thicken polyester resin for fillets & fairing compounds. I was going to blame it on a previous owner but it occurs in places that only the factory has touched... (like under bulkhead tabbing). I've found it to be as brittle as bondo. well worth chipping out and replacing with some marine grade material.

cheers,
bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 06:32 PM
Thanks Bill. I'm glad that repair is history. Now I'm focusing on the rudder shoe, rudder, etc. Whn you removed your rudder, dod you encounter anything like the two holes I posted pictures of in the earlier posts. I am going to just fill them in but can't for the life of me figure out why they are there or where they go.

bill@ariel231
04-22-2007, 06:55 PM
Tim

I think you found the propeller aperture.. At least that's where my prop is located.

I've read that all hulls had the cut out for an inboard prop. The factory then faired-in a separate piece to fill in the aperture if the boat was built as an outboard. The blue fairing compound on the seam appears to match lower section of the yellow outline in the picture attached (from A-409). From some other observations on this site this is another wet spot although it shouldn't result in water reaching the bilge. It will possibly lead to freeze/thaw damage if water is traped in there. I suspect you will find more of that blue fairing about 1 foot above the spot you found.

while the rudder is out, you may want to clean out and fair the slot where the rudder meets the trailing edge of the keel. on my boat there were a couple of thin spots in that slot where the rudder had chafed against the hull opening up a couple small holes.

good luck,
bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 07:04 PM
Bill, that makes a lot of sense and yes there is another one about a foot or so above. I'll just grind them out a little then fill with epoxy. I can't wait to see how dry my new bilge is once I launch this summer. A dry bilge is like a good cup of coffee, although there is only a handful of us out there that can relate to such a comparison. Thanks for the info!

Tim Mertinooke
04-22-2007, 07:07 PM
Speaking of summer, I noticed there are a few of us in New England. Rendezvous?

Tim Mertinooke
04-24-2007, 12:40 PM
Here is my plan to replace the hideous attempt at weather-proofing the depth sounder. I am going to add a four inch bronze fixed port to the bulkhead and then mount the depth sounder display behind on a nice piece of mahogany. The mahogany piece will have a hinge so that it can be flipped out of the way to allow light inside if I want. I like this approach because the depth sounder display will be able to be read from the inside or out and it won't be in the way like one mounted that swings into the companionway. This will also allow me to keep the companionway boards in and still read the depth. The added light is the bonus and I plan to add another on the port side to keep things symetrical. My Cape Dorification of hardware has begun with this step toward bronze.


How it looks right now...
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/depth%20meter%20box.JPG


This is what will be in its place.
http://www.marinershardware.com/images/Ports/PortFMRoundBz328x304.gif

bill@ariel231
04-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Tim

I like your port idea.. but if it saves you time, that model depth sounder is weather proof in a bulkhead mount. We had one out in the weather for 14 years on a Cape Dory. no problem as long as the UV sun cover was used to protect the clear plastic display.

bill

Tim Mertinooke
04-27-2007, 03:54 PM
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%202.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%203.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%204.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%205.jpg


This is the approximate size and position of the new port which will be delivered sometime this coming week. I still need to work out position because I am making the mounting piece of wood with a hinge and I want it to work seemlessly and simple while maintaining a symmetrical look on the outside. I will probably install another on the port side to maintain the symmetry and maybe mount the GPS on the same type of hinged piece of wood

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%206.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
04-29-2007, 05:45 PM
I am removing all of the bottom paint from the rudder area while the rudder is out to get a good assessment. I was looking closely at the bottom of the rudder tube and noticed what appeared to be unsaturated cloth. My plan is to grind the dry cloth out with a dremel and flapwheel which has worked very well for hard to reach areas in other projects and then fill the gap between the glass rudder tube and the opening just below it with thickened epoxy. I'm not sure if water could get in from there, but the fact that cloth seems unsaturated there and that it is below the waterline this is a good preventative repair.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20tube/rudder%20tube%201.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20tube/rudder%20tube%202.jpg

ebb
04-30-2007, 07:26 AM
Tim, I think the tube itself is fiberglass pipe and looks fine.
It is all that sloppy Pearson work around it that looks dry.

The trouble is when you are working with polyester that it is an undependable glue. So if they stopped for lunch and went back later we get joins that have no strength in sheer.

You can find white fiberglass showing at times that was soaked at the time of laminating. Liquid plastic doesn't really soak into the fibers, just surrounds it. But it looks like you may have found another area that was not saturated when the boat was made.

It also could be a 'major' leak area. I would fair the hole, as I'm sure you are doing, and add some epoxy insurance inside where the tube exits the hull.
Thanks for the CSI photos!!!

Tim Mertinooke
04-30-2007, 09:10 AM
I ground it out a little last night after posting and found staurated laminate which is good. I can imagine though water that slowly migrates through any imperfection there and finds its way in to the bilge. I'll post some photos tonight after further grinding and investigation. Shouldn't be a biggie, I imagine smearing some epoxy up there so that it is fair with the bottom of the rudder tube. That ought to do it. How did this boat stay afloat again?

BTW- My little cherub likes his Ariel. The indoctrination begins!

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/the%20crew/eli%20cabin%201.jpg

bill@ariel231
04-30-2007, 10:19 AM
Tim

excellent job on the recruiting side of your refit team! He'll fit in all of the places where adult sized humans don't. Very handy when it comes time to rewire your boat.

cheers,
bill

joe
04-30-2007, 11:07 AM
Too bad that Hobbit's aren't for real:) I could sure use some.

Tim Mertinooke
05-01-2007, 04:49 AM
hehe. Actually the boat was rewired prior to purchase so that department is all set, he did however come in handy when I emptied the keel void...

Tim Mertinooke
05-05-2007, 07:16 PM
My new bronze port came in. The locations are approximate as I work out the fine details, but here is a preview of what's to come.

Cockpit view (I like these ports because they are almost flush so if you lean against the bulkhead it comfy)
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%207.jpg


Interior view. I coughed up a couple more bucks for the bronze interior finish ring. It will match nicely with my "someday ports" which will be 12" opening bronze beauties to replace the windows.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%208.jpg

The fit is perfect as planned!
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/instruments/instrument%20box%209.jpg

A-24 is slowly but surely gaining back her integrity.

Tim Mertinooke
05-05-2007, 07:40 PM
My surprising find last week, to me at least, was indeed a propeller aperture filler as Bill suggested. The filler is hollow with an opening in the top and bottom. When I tapped the filler with the handle of a screwdriver it was definitely thin and hollow. I duct taped the nozzle to my shop vac up to one of the holes to suck out any debris or water that might have been hanging out in there. Nothing came out, but I could here a whistle noise so I knew air could somehow get into the void inside the filler. The air was soming in from the other hole. This void would have definitely filled up with water every time the boat was in the water. The apperture is tabbed on with a layer of fiberglass. THe ends were beginning to delaminate a little bit. I grinded off these ends until there was only saturated laminate left. I sanded and prepped the area then coated it with thickened epoxy. I forced some epoxy into the holes so they are now sealed. After the epoxy cures overnight, I'll put a fairing coat of thickened epoxy over that, then sand again. I'll post some pictures of the area coated with epoxy tomorrow after I fair it.



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%201.jpg



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%202.jpg



http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%203.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-05-2007, 07:50 PM
I dremmeled out the dry laminate found underneath the fiberglass rudder tube using a flap wheel attachment. In very localized spots there was some discoloration of the laminate which indicated to me that water had penetrated. I took a fine grinding attchment and drilled out these area like a dentist. Once all of the discolored areas were removed it was ready for a gooping of thickened epoxy.


You can see the areas that were dark after grinding with the dremel. I forgot to take a picture after I drilled out these areas.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20tube/rudder%20tube%203.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-06-2007, 07:25 AM
Here is the finished rudder tube. It is flush from the bottom of the tube to the opening of the hole all the way around. I'm not sure if this area ever leaked, but no there's not a chance.


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20tube/rudder%20tube%204.jpg


Pardon the spider colony part way up the tube.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20tube/rudder%20tube%205.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-06-2007, 07:33 AM
I sanded smooth the initial coating of thickened epoxy over the propeller apperture. I applied a final coat this morning. This should completely seal the area so that no water can migrate.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%204.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%205.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%206.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-08-2007, 04:35 AM
Here is the view after the final fairing coat of epoxy cured and was sanded smooth. The area is now completely covered with epoxy so it should stay dry. Paint was applied yesterday. My launch date is tentatively scheduled for June 9th.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%207.JPG


Finished product.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%208.JPG


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%209.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/propeller%20aperture%2010.JPG

bill@ariel231
05-08-2007, 05:09 AM
Tim

good looking glasswork. I see you cut back the bottom paint near your cockpit drains. Are the original tubes in place or have you refit with seacocks?

Bill

Tim Mertinooke
05-08-2007, 09:40 AM
Bill, the original tubes are still there and will be for this season. New bronze seacocks will happen next fall. I'm also going to replace the standing rigging including chainplates this fall/winter, maybe spring depending on weather. Slowly but surely this boat will regain all of its integrity and then some.

As I thought about where potential water ingression occurs the through hulls came to mind. As I looked closely at them I noticed a few spots that were void of any kind of filler. I decided to grind the area out a little and then put on some thickened epoxy. This is a temporary fix to get me through this season as I will be removing the tubes later.


This is the view as it appeared before I went at it with a grinder.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/cockpit/drains/cockpit%20drain%202.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/cockpit/drains/cockpit%20drain%203.JPG


After some quick grinding it was apparent that there were gaps between the tube and hull. I don't think water would get to the bilge due to the glassing of the tube on the cabin side of the hull, but it's a quick pre-emptive strike against a possible problem. My dream is to throw the boat in the water this June and have it not leak one drop. One thin coat of thickened epoxy should take care of this potential problem.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/cockpit/drains/cockpit%20drain%201.JPG

I just ordered some silicon bronze bolts, nuts, and washers which will be used to hold the rudder shoe and strap to the hull in place of the pins that were destroyed upon their removal. My plan is to have the rudder put back on this weekend using 5200 as the bedding compound. Once the rudder is put back on I will be putting my efforts toward the interior so that it is habitable this summer. Fun Fun!

Tim Mertinooke
05-13-2007, 04:13 AM
I finished getting the shoe ready to be mounted the other day by making a form fit on the keel for it to fit into. The original setting of the shoe had a large gap of about an inch at the aft end that was filled with a bedding compound. I want the shoe to be set completely on epoxy with little if any play. My plan is to put the shoe in a ziplock bag then goop a large amount of epoxy onto the bag where the shoe and keel meet. Then with a jack set the shoe in place. I put the rudder back on temporarily to get the fit correct.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%201.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%202.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%203.JPG


Once the epoxy began to kick I carefully cut the bag with a razor blade leaving a small lip to hold onto to peel the bag off once completely cured.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%204.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%205.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%206.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%207.JPG


The shoe was easily removed. I released the jack and it came right off.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%208.JPG


The plastic bag peeled off easy as well once the epoxy cured.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20bag%209.JPG



You can see in the last two pictures that there were a few small places where the bag wrinkled. I just sanded these area a little then coated with a thin film of thickened epoxy to fair them. THe end result was a solid epoxy mold for the shoe to fit on like a puzzle piece.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20finish%204.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20finish%205.jpg


Hole placement and drilling.

This was annoying because whoever drilled the holes in the shoe originally did so in haste. The next two pictures show that all four holes were drilled at slightly different angles. Since I wanted to match the holes I did some measuring, and went at it with a drill. I only missed once and made a corrective drill which you can see in the next post when I mounted the shoe.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20crooked%20drilling%201.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20crooked%20drilling%202.jpg


The final hole placement after only one slight mis-drill.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20finish%206.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-13-2007, 04:35 AM
I used 3M 5200 as a bedding compound for the rudder shoe and strap. This will provide a nice permanent bond that leaves me the possibility of removal in the future should I need to.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20shoe%20mounted%201.jpg


I had trouble finding bronze rods like the originals that held the rudder shoe in place. To compromise I purchased 1/4 inch carrage bolts. They did not have the length I needed to bolt the shoe in place so I filed the holes on one side of the rudder shoe so the carrage bolt would fit and I plan to cut the ends of off the bolts and peen the ends once the 5200 cures the end of this week. I left this area messy so that the peened ends will set in a gasket of 5200. THe area will be carefully cleaned once that is done.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20shoe/rudder%20shoe%20carraige%20bolt%20file.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20shoe%20mounted%203.jpg


Rudder Strap

The original rudder strap was well worn and ready to be retired. Ebb, our resident wizard generously gave me some bronze stock from which I made a new one. Thanks again Sir! This one should last another 45 years.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%206.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%209.jpg


I used silicon bronze carraige bolts again for this application like the shoe. This time the length I needed was to be found so I bolted this in place with silicon bronze lock washers and nuts. The strap was bedded in 5200 like the shoe.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%207.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20strap%208.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/final%20rudder%20assembly%201.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-13-2007, 05:05 AM
In an obsessive compulsive rage I decided to finish removing what was left of the materials Pearson "dumped" into the bilge. I noticed at the very bottom of the bilge beneath the foam was a rubber-like compound that the lead pigs sat on. This was obnoxious to remove, but worth it. I used my trusty wonder bar and a serrated knife to remove it a little bit at a time. Prying, cutting, prying, cutting until it was all removed. What I have now at the bottom of my bilge is fiberglass, poured resin, and some random things set in the resin like a piece of mahogany, and some weird purple sea-shell type things. There is no wonder now that I look at this that water could have percolated down into the laminate then out the shoe through the pin holes. I could also see light through a couple areas where the shoe sets before I did the epoxy work shown in the previous post. I am going to prep the area by removing all of the excess resin stuck to the sides of the bilge. Grind down the random high spots, clean the ara with acetone to remove the nastiness, rough up the area at the very bottom of the bilge and then pour some epoxy in which I hope migrats into the nooks and crannies. This will be followed by a couple layers of fine weave cloth saturated in epoxy. Once that is done the area will be coated with a thin coat of thickened epoxy to make it fair. My goal it to have a smooth clean bilge that does not let water in or out unless directed by me. THe area in the front of this part of the bilge allows water into the keel void found between the lead ballast and the hull. This area will also be sealed with epoxy and laminate. This will be painted with bilgekote once complete. I have no plans to put the lead pigs back in. Once this is done I will mount my new bilge pump.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2016.JPG

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2017.JPG


This stuff is incredibly foul smelling and tough.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2019.JPG


A snap shot into the tools and technique.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2020.JPG


This is a view after I removed all of this rubber stuff. You can see it is a potpourii of stuff (wood, glass, resin, unknown solids mixed in.) This was certainly shoddy work done by Pearson. The good news is that I am truly at the bottom of my bilge now and if I prep well I should get a good mecahnical bond between the new epoxy and what is there now totally sealing the area off forever. I will hide the sins of those before me.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2021.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2022.jpg


If you look closely at this picture you can see the purple solid things I was mentioning. They are inbedded in the resin they poured. This is the area directly above the rudder shoe location. I can visualize water making in between these pieces and the resin poured. Covering this should do the trick.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%2023.jpg

ebb
05-13-2007, 08:09 AM
Someday when the ultimate HOW2 on plastic classics is put together, TIM,
you'll have a prominent part in the volume on Hull & Decks.
Great photos!

Kept running into that purple concrete stuff in 338. Because so much of the interior bulkhead and furniture was fitted loose in 338, I think the stuff was a kind of stiff quick set bondo the Factory used to position and tack things in place. Maybe it was colored blue so the workers could see it in relation to all the other plastic laminate and tabbing going on? A late model like 338, I have the feeling the stuff going in was pretty casual and improvisational, nearly everything is 'off' in the boat. Maybe it was the solvents.

While the main bulkhead in 338 is way crooked down bottom, some of the other important pieces like the settees are relatively, relatively, parallel and square. One side is completely removed now and the telltale purple spots were evident in places. A flapwheel on the angle-grinder* mostly disappears it, but it does seem to have been used befor the major tabbing of the bulkheads, furniture and soles.

Yours would be the first 'rubber' padding Pearson used, that I can remember hearing about here. What is the thinking of putting weight in the end of the keel anyway? Must be a MORC regulation? OB vs Atomic4? Certainly our rudders are heavy enough! There's more than 20 pounds of bronze metal in the rudder alone. Then add the shoe, gudgeon, bolts, and tiller head !:D
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
*In the Book of Renovation the angle grinder and flapwheel is the epitome of evil. After using a Festool vac and 5" sander system inside the boat, it's impossible to imagine a horrible job more gratifying. While not as quick in removing material (afterall we are expecting a sander to do the work of a grinder), the experience of working with NO lethal dust and fiberglass particles is mind blowing! While we put on a dustmask, whipping it off we discover the air inside the boat is clean and sweet smelling, with very few sparkling glass nasties floating around. An amazing experience!

The company has a strangle hold on the pricing in the US. No matter who sells it, it's the same price. VERY very expensive. For prepping the inside of a fiberglass classic nothing else comes close.:cool:

SkipperJer
05-13-2007, 09:29 AM
Tim,
Fill me in on the reasoning behind not putting the lead back in. Thanks for sharing your fine work.

Bill
05-13-2007, 10:19 AM
Tim,
Fill me in on the reasoning behind not putting the lead back in.

See "Encapsulated Lead" discussion: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=27

and "Extra Pearson Ballast" http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=31

Remember the Search button . .

Tim Mertinooke
05-13-2007, 12:54 PM
Alberg designs tend to squat I have found. My Cape Dory Typhoon does, my friends CD 27 does, half the ariel photos I have run across show it. My outboard weighs 60 pounds, Gas tank full is another 15, I plan to keep a small anchor in the stern lazerette as well, theres another 20 pounds. I prefer the boat sits without the squat and removing the lead should help. I know the lead keeps the weight down low where it should be on a boat like this, and that it could affect the performance, but for this summer I don't plan on putting it back. If I feel as though it needs to be put back in next summer to compare I will. For this summer however they stay out. I weigh 210 so I'll just lay down on the cockpit sole if it gets to nasty out there.

Tim Mertinooke
05-22-2007, 10:30 AM
It's nice to have wrapped things up below the waterline, I am pretty sure she won't sink. Now my energies go to the interior. After seeing so many inspirational photos browsing this site, I decided to paint the interior gloss white with brightsides, then replace the original lights with brass ones from ABI. I hope to have things prepped this week and paint this weekend weather permitting.

The replacement lights
http://www.sailboatstuff.com/images/AB410210LG.jpg

Some befores of the bulkhead. The two new lights are going exactly where the other ones were (at least for this year anyway) for the sake of ease.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20before%201.JPG

After removing the weird foam placed in the gap between the bulkhead and the cabin trunk, there was a space that needed to be filled. I decided to use a painter's caulk to make it look like a tight fit. The teak trim of course will be varnished. My hope is that this dark, multicolored, cave of a cabin transforms into a bright and airy one.

Here is the nicely cut bulkhead that left the shop floor in RI 45 years ago. Now that's craftsmanship (note sarcasm in voice.)

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20before%202.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 04:49 AM
Here is a shot after the first coat. the second coat today should make it look awesome. I decided to do it in stages as I have limited time after work. The sides will be done next followed by the aft part of the cabin. I have some teak pieces let over from a job my dad did and I will be using those to make teak trim around the top and sides of the bulkhead.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20bulkhead%20finish%201

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 04:54 AM
Here's a nibble of what I'll also be doing to the boat this weekend...

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/coaming%20block%20finished%201.JPG

ebb
05-23-2007, 05:56 AM
Can't a tendency to squat be countered by balancing with weight and ballast? For instance if you have 100# way out at the stern why not try a similar weight in or near the forepeak? Certainly would counter any hobby horsing....?

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 09:38 AM
Sounds good, but I liken this game to leveling a chair by shaving a little off one of the legs.

I plan to remove the cabin sole this winter and epoxy/glass over the porous roving so hastily thrown in by Pearson. I will also be removing a section in the V-berth sole similar to what Bill(231) did for access there. I want a smooth transition from bow to sump for water to flow and mght try some creative drain/pipe thing for water from the anchor locker to flow. I like Ebb's pipe idea, although I don't think mine will be that elaborate. The entire bilge will be faired and painted as well and I want access to the entire bilge so I might change the access panels when I put the new sole in. I think by adding weight, it would complicate my plan because I wouls want it removable, but don't want free pieces of lead able to scoot around. A-24's on a diet, I just assume keep the weight out.

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 02:05 PM
Here is the second coat (the door got its first today though.) I'm thinking one more coat tomorrow like they recommend and then I'll start painting the sides which is a puke yellow. Yellow...Yellow...Yellow...I can't wait until the whole boat is de-yellowed.

My yacht lamps came in yesterday and I can't wait to throw them on once painting is complete. What a difference a coat of paint makes. Slowly but surely!

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20bulkhead%20finish%202.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 04:01 PM
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20light%201.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20light%202.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20light%203.jpg


The indoctrination continues...
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/interior/interior%20eli%201.jpg

bill@ariel231
05-23-2007, 05:03 PM
Tim

you are going to like those lights, I've got the same model in the main cabin in A-231. They've held up well for 8 seasons with no corrosion (unlike an earlier pair that lasted just two). Are you putting any lights in the "galley" side?

bill

Tim Mertinooke
05-23-2007, 08:22 PM
There is a dome light there, but I haven't decided if I will replace that one or add something different. I plan on working that detail out this summer once I actually use the boat. Glad to hear the lights held up that well, they sure do look great. I am going to add two more in the v-berth, but I decided to leave the v-berth alone for now because I am going to do a marathon session in the future (winter maybe?) grinding and fairing there. One thing and section of the boat at a time. I'm 31, but I wish I was retired so I could wake up in the morning and ask myself "what part of the boat will I work on today", not "I wonder if I will be able to work on the boat today?" Too few hours in a day and its really too bad we humans need to sleep...think of the possibilities...

Tim Mertinooke
05-25-2007, 09:26 AM
It was too hot and muggy yesterday to paint the interior or varnish my brightwork so I decided to continue my assault on the bilge.
I poured a fair amount of epoxy into bilge to seal the area up after prepping by sanding and an acetone wash. Water would make its way through the laminate somehow and migrate out the shoe. I tested and verified this happening through a controlled experiment last month. I'm not entirely sure the path the water took whether it was through a fissure or through laminate that was compromised through the exposure of water over such a long period of time, but water and gravity did its thing exploiting a weakness somewhere. After letting the area dry out completely over the past month, I tilted the boat back with a jack and poured the epoxy. By tilting the boat back the epoxy ran backwards and pooled over the area the rudder shoe is located. After this kicked so that it wasn't tacky, I grinded the areas of the bilge where there were tumor-like things sticking out. These were areas of random saturated roving that fell from above or folded in the process of layup. Some of these bulges were filled with water, so they may also have been blisters. This area was filled with water for a VERY long time so blisters are certainly a possibility. After removing these tumors, then prepping and cleaning the area up I applied another large amount of epoxy, this time thickened. I plan to prep this coating today and put another thick layer of thickened epoxy on tonight followed by a thin coating poured on after that thickened layer coold down. This last unthickened layer will create a nice smooth finish on the bottom. My next step is to continue peeling and scraping off the excess resin Pearson coated the bilge with, then rolling on epoxy as a barrier coat, then painting with bilgekote. A lot of work in the end, but I will have the deep, accessible, smooth bilge I wanted that only alloows water in or out upon my command. Plus one keel void will be gone...right?


I fabricated a tool to grind down the weird high spots in the bilge by duct-taping a dremel and 80 grit flapwheel onto a broom handle. I had worklight and shop vac bolw the sole which worked very well as I had plenty of light to see through the dust and the dust was quickly removed va the shop vac. There was no dust in the cabin from the grinding that I could see. You are looking at the aft end of the bilge where the rudder shoe is located. You can see the epoxy that I had poured earlier in the day.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20epoxy%201.JPG


Here is what the area looked like after I grinded down the tumors and shop vacuumed the dust out.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20epoxy%202.JPG


The next step was to prep the poured epoxy and add the thickened coat which I used to build up a few areas and fair others at the bottom of the bilge. The tool of choice was a plastic putty knife duct-taped to the end of a broom stick. This worked well as I just needed the material spread out and somewhat fair as another coat will go on top.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20epoxy%203.JPG


Result thus far.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20epoxy%204.JPG


This is the aft section of the lead ballast. I have witnessed water coming out of this area from the void between the keel and lead ballast. After prepping the laminate, I goped a large amount of epoxy here. I will be adding a lot more here later to ensure a nice thick barrier preventing the transfer of water.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/bilge/bilge%20epoxy%205.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
05-26-2007, 02:33 PM
After five coats of Epifanes varnish all of the brightwork on the boat is done except for some small interior teak pieces that I didn't want to remove. Today I put on the coamings and winch blocks, tomorrow I am putting everything else back on. I am bedding the pieces with lifecalk mahogany colored caulking. I also hope to finish painting the interior this weekend (hopefully anyway.) My wife is making cushion covers for the nice cushions that came with the boat. This was one of the things the PO bought and used only one season and they look it. She is coming together.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/brightwork%20finished%201.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/brightwork%20finished%203.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/brightwork%20finished%204.jpg


http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/brightwork/brightwork%20finished%205.jpg


If only the rest of the boat looked this good...

Tim Mertinooke
06-16-2007, 05:22 PM
150 mile transport was uneventful. Phew! There is nothing more stressful than trailering.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%201.jpg

Arrived at the marina right on time.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%202.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%203.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%204.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%205.jpg

Haven't gotten around to changing the name on the transom yet as I was too busy getting her ready to float. Maybe next year. Wooden banner?
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%206.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%207.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%208.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%209.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%2010.jpg

After a 10 year dry vacation, she floats! That's my dad checking her out. There wasn't one drop of water in my bilge. Yippee!
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%2011.jpg

After a short trip down river we docked at the yacht club.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%2012.jpg

Proud moment.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%2013.jpg

Tomorrow we put the mast up and head home. Then we are coming back Tuesday to spend a few days onboard and will do a little trip to Essex Bay. This is what it is all about.

joe
06-16-2007, 07:41 PM
Many CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :) :)

frank durant
06-17-2007, 06:25 AM
lookin mighty fine !!!:)

ebb
06-17-2007, 07:22 AM
Did YOU do the math correct?
Imagine how Archi feels!!!

M m m m M m m m M M M M ! ! !


'Noli turbare circulos meos.'
Archimedes discovered the principal of buoyancy.:cool:

Happy fatherhood 6/17/07!

Tim Mertinooke
06-18-2007, 04:42 AM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Splash/float%2014.JPG

bill@ariel231
06-18-2007, 05:03 AM
Very nice Mr Tim...

question.. when you were on the travel lift, did the operator record your displacement? Having followed the Pearson Triton displacement debate, I'm curious about the range of displacements for our little boats...

Tim Mertinooke
06-18-2007, 05:41 AM
when you were on the travel lift, did the operator record your displacement? Having followed the Pearson Triton displacement debate, I'm curious about the range of displacements for our little boats...

To be honest with you I didn't even think about it at the time. My mind was all over the place at that moment. I'll be sure to have them check this fall during haul out.

Our plan is to head back out to Newburyport on Wednesday and do a short trip to Essex Bay to start our cruising this summer. The plan is to use the boat as much as we can and enjoy every second of it. I can't wait!

http://www.cape-ann.com/nautes.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misc/essex%20copy.JPG

mbd
06-18-2007, 05:54 AM
Ha! The man bought the boat in February, has already gotten her floating and sailable after 10 years on the hard, and is well underway on his total restoration. Well done Capt. Mertinooke and congrats! Have a great first season on your "new" boat! She looks great in the water.

Tim Mertinooke
06-24-2007, 06:43 PM
Well, we completed our first trip with Archimedes (wooden name banner being worked on as we speak, sorry to those that liked whigmawhateveritwas...) Like any shake down cruise, there were highs and lows. The high is that she sails great, is roomy enough to live on for a few days for the three of us, took on no water, and overall is in nice sailing shape with the exception of one thing, the rudder. The wind was blowing a steady 15 gusting to 20. Not quite the ideal conditions to test a boat that hasn't been in the water for a decade, but non the less it was a fine day to see how balanced a boat can be. We started out by flying the jib as the wind was from the aft on the way out the river. After exiting the river we raised the main and were on a great beam reach and exceeded six knots over land the entire trip down. We were at hull spped and pushed the boat pretty hard. Just before we got to essex I noticed the tiller had a little more play than when we left Newburyport. We motored into the bay and set the anchor. The wind was coming from one direction and the current was coming from another so the anchoring was not ideal. I set the tiller so we were riding well for a while. With everything set, I started to check the tiller to see what was up and was getting ready to dive and check the rudder to see why it had the extra play. The wind began to pick up and the balance that I had found was disrupted and the boat started to swing around the anchor rode as it was overpowering the current. I couldn't stop it from happening once it started and once it was wrapped I heard a crack and the tiller went loose. The anchor rode that wrapped around the boat created enough force to break the top 25% of the rudder clear apart from the rest of the rudder. The shaft setup on the Ariels is not continuous from the top to bottom instead it is in two pieces to allow for the propeller aperture. The forces of a hard sail mixed with the force of the wrapped rode was all it could take until it broke. A piece of the broken rudder floated up and I hopped in the tender to chase it down. In the center of the piece was some suspect wood that looked a little rotten. I'm drying it out now to get a better assessment. The rudder was laminated as I showed in previous posts and it was damp when I removed it. It looked like it was in great shape, but apparently it wasn't. The good news is that it happened on the shakedown cruise within ten miles of my mooring and that we had a great two hour sail before it happened. We motored back using the outboard in the well and were able to steer using the motor just fine. This was one of the pros I thought of when buying a boat that uses an outboard in a well intsead of the inboard. Everything else on the boat worked great including the instruments, lights, running rigging, etc. so that's good news as well. Right now the boat is sitting on her mooring safe. We can motor just fine so bringing it in to the dock is no problem. Our plan is to bring it along side the bulkhead of the yacht club and dry dock her for a tide or two to get a better assessment and move from there. If I can rig something temporary up so that we can go for a few more sails we will. If it can't be repaired and sailed this season, then we will enjoy the fine harbor we moor in and putter around with our new 6HP Nissan. You can probably guess what my winter project will be.

The sunset on the first night aboard before motoring out to our mooring.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%201.jpg


The next morning on our way out the river via the jib.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%202.jpg

Right after raising the main.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%203.jpg

What it's all about in my eyes.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%204.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%205.jpg

This is looking south toward Halibut point which is the tip of Cape Ann Mass.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%206.jpg

This is looking at the entrace to Essex Bay. At this point I could really feel the extra play in the tiller.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%207.jpg

A blury picture, but we were flying down there on a beam reach. The top left shows our speed over land at that moment.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/essex%20trip%2007/essex%208.jpg

The show goes on. Stay tuned as the story unfolds. Of course I hope to sail again this summer, but even if I'm left to be a "powerboater" for the remainder of the season, we plan to spend quite a few more nights aboard as we work out where we want to keep everything and come up with a list of modifications we will make to make it our little cruiser.

commanderpete
06-25-2007, 10:15 AM
What a bummer, especially after all your hard work.

Another reason why everyone should have at least two boats

mbd
06-25-2007, 10:38 AM
What a bummer, especially after all your hard work...
Ditto that Tim! But, at least you didn't suffer a catastrophic failure or anything. Especially surprising since you ground it all down and had a close look at it!

BTW, beautiful sunset picture!

Tim Mertinooke
06-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Ditto that Tim! But, at least you didn't suffer a catastrophic failure or anything.

Very true and that is why I'm bummed but not not distraught. The boat sailed beautifully and everything worked as planned except for the rudder.


Especially surprising since you ground it all down and had a close look at it!

Tell me about it. It was damp when I removed the laminate and if it were damp for ten years or more under the laminate creating an anaerobic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic) environment in which dry rot occurs then it is logical that the mahogany would have lost some strength. It did look fine and solid, but it would have only taken a relatively small area to be compromised in just the right spot to create the situation that was created. I hope to fashion some sort of temporary repair so that I can do some more sailing. I knew putting the boat in this year after its long slumber would be a crapshoot and knew the potential of fighting such demons. I envisioned an annoying leak, or some rigging issues where something would need to be replaced, maybe even some electric poltergeists, but the rudder I didn't tink would be a problem especially after what it looked like. Oh well, 45 years of life with 35 years of service it did its job and I suppose doesn't owe anyone anything. The good news is that the epoxy-work I did on the rudder shoe and strap area has created a waterproof situation and after removing the shoe this fall it should be a staright forward repair.

Remember the good old days...
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder/rudder%20removed%201.jpg

mbd
06-30-2007, 07:20 AM
Good luck with your rudder repairs Tim. I'll be out of touch for a week and, sadly, away from the boat (gasp!) and am looking forward to lots of pictures and a clever "fix"... ;)

ebb
06-30-2007, 07:46 AM
Can we see a forensic of the actual break?
And, please, how did it happen, again?

Tim Mertinooke
06-30-2007, 02:06 PM
Post 157 (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showpost.php?p=15763&postcount=157) explains it in greater detail, but in a nutshell I sailed her hard in 15-20 knot winds for two hours and I noticed a greater amount of play in the tiller the closer we got to our destination. When we went around the corner into Essex Bay to anchor the tide and wind were opposing each other but not in a consistent manner making it challenging to achor. We anchored and I set the tiller so that the boat would ride on the anchor without wrapping which is a common occurance where we were. The yacht club I am member of calls it the "Essex Wrap". With a lengthened wind gust we wrapped around our anchor rode which put an enormous amount of strain on the rudder and that's when we heard it crack. The tiller wne tloose and I immediately knew what had happened although I didn't know to what extent the damage was until later that day when we were back at our mooring. I was relieved to see that the top part of the rudder broke and that it appeared to be about 75% there which will give me a nice place to fabricate a repair from. I didn't dive down to get a better look I was just pearing down from the tender with a mask.

As far as the repair goes, I am trying to make a cheap adequite repair that will get me through the next two months of fair-weather sailing. Our cruising plans are to stay close to home and maybe do a couple 3-5 hour jaunts down or up the coast, but not venture too far from home and to certainly not push the boat as I have no real specs to go by for the integrity of this repair. On paper it looks Macgyverish enough to work, but for how long?

I will post lots of pictures for everyone to see. Close-ups of the damage, repair, etc. so that we have on this site an archived detail of a rudder failure. The repair will consist of a galvenized steel water pipe with a threaded elbow at the end on which another short piece of galvenized water pipe will be will be threaded into place. That short piece will act as the lateral piece that transfers the movement of the shaft (new vertical pipe) to movement of the blade. The threads will be glued together with epoxy and I might put a small amount of cloth around the elbow because I'm not sure how much strength this will actually have because this fitting was not designed for such an application. I also do not want the fitting to become unthreaded by the twisting motion of the tiller and resistance on the blade. The remaining piece of origianal rudder that is still there will be cut so that the lateral pipe rests on it evenly. I have copper strapping that I will then put over the top of the pipe and will screw it down to the original piece still there. This will hold it in place and provide some strength which will be needed to be able to move the rudder. I will then take two thin pieces of plywood that I cut out to match the original piece that is now missing and sandwhich over the lateral pipe being sure to leave a healthy lip over the remaing original rudder. I have four stainless bolts with large fender washers that are going to clamp this together. I am also going to screw in a bunch of galvenized screws into the two pieces of plywood from both sides because the resin holding the plywood together will surely be inadequite and the wood is going to want to seperate in a short while. The screws will mechanically hold the ply pieces together even if the resin dissolves. This should create a reapir that will be adequite to do some light sailing. I spent $38 at home depot the other night and I think I have everything I need to perform the repair. If it does work I saved my sailing season for less than 40 bucks. If it doesn't work, oh well, at least I had a cool problem to wrap my brain around and someone will know what not to do if this happens to them.

Feel free to light this idea on fire or blow it out of the water as I plan to do the repair Tuesday and have time to change course. This winter when I fabricate a new rudder from scratch it will be very strong and well made.

ebb
07-01-2007, 07:00 AM
Gee, Tim,
With the 'essex wrap' a constant
sounds like you guys should have a spare rudder, or two, ready to whip on after your anchoring events.

OK, it sounds like you got the anchor rope over the top of the rudder and the forces pulled it down and across at an angle - breaking off the 'top' of the rudder blade. This being a regular occurance is mind boggling.

And since there is opportunity here in the design of the Ariel rudder, there is the possiblity that the rudder shaft got bent!!! Or that the rudder tube got compromised at the hull join. Might have a crack.

An immediate thought is to cut the top of the repaired rudder at an angle so that THE WARP WILL SLIP AND NOT HANG UP ON THE TOP OF THE RUDDER. Seems actually like a shippy thing to do in this case.

We did talk about breakaway rudder tops and bottoms. The negative slope on the top of the rudder could be replaced with a small 'block' of high-density PVC (Divinycell) carved fair with the rudder - bringing the top back to its usual form. Maybe you could get it to stay with polysulfide, but you'd probably have to epoxy goop it on. Thing is, it would act as a a breakaway and give you your hydrodydamics and be easily replaceable. Wouldn't fill it or paint it.

Or just leave the top of the rudder sloped down and see what it actually does to your sailing efficiency.


Sounds like you people are normally anchoring in the middle of a maelstrom. Couldn't the situation be controlled better with a bow AND stern anchor?



But of more concern is
you are saying that the tiller had more play in it as the day progressed. You, ofcourse, have replaced the sleeve/O-ring bearing at the top of the rudder tube. (?) You can get the replacement right here at the Association Store at cost. Worth every penny. It'll will cure a loose rudder shaft that has play in it and allow you to 'feel' the water again.

There could be other issues at the top of the rudder like with your tiller fitting.
See that the 'clamp' screw is functioning and that the key hasn't deteriorated in the key way. Or that the tiller fitting is in it's proper position and everything is snug.

By the by,
for those attempting to drop their rudder for the first time,
you should slip the sleeve bearing up and out of the rudder tube befor you attempt to lift and move the rudder over to drop it past the shoe.


Jury repairs are always interesting and instructive. Looking forward.

Tim Mertinooke
07-01-2007, 07:58 AM
Gee, Tim,
With the 'essex wrap' a constant...This being a regular occurance is mind boggling.

Anytime you have opposing forces that are not equal but alternate in strength (wind gust, lull, etc) the makings are there for a swing which brings the potential for a wrap. The Merrimack river where I keep my boat has a strong current and ten foot tides and keel wraps happen at the moorings too. When I worked at the yacht club in college I would see it occur a half dozen times a season in our mooring field. I can't see this being a uniquely New England thing though. Anywhere there is current and wind it should occur if the current and wind battle for superiority. In Essex it happens during a tide change when there is an oppposing wind and due to the bay's location, size, and topography it isn't uncommon. It isn't usually a major event, just an annoyance as I have experienced in the past. If you were a powerboat which is the majority of vessels frequenting this place due to the shallow nature of the entrance you would just go in circles. A fin keel of a sailboat can get in trouble as the rode can make it between the skeg or spade and the keel itself. I have seen people really gt themselves into a bind (literally) this way. A full keeled sailboat allows the rode to slip right off with some help in getting it moving the opposite direction it wrapped, but if the forces are strong enough, the tension is significant and the rode is against the rudder causing it to go hard to one side and the rudder itself is bearing the brunt of the force. Not ideal, especially for a piece of mahogany shrouded in FRP for 35 years. What made my event interesting and different from other experiences I have had there was the strength of the wind and how gusty it was. When a blalance was met, the rules changed as the wind strength changed. This is what put a lot of strain on the rudder which caused the failure. I have anchored there many times without incident, but like I mentioned before, if there is a tide shift or a wind shift that causes the opposing forces, it can happen. Some certainly do anchor bow and stern and I had my spare anchor in the dinghy and planned to set it before we headed into the beach where I wouldn't be able to stop this from occuring, but it happened less than 5 minutes after we anchored. In hindsite, I should have set the stern anchor earlier, or kept tention on the rudder for a little bit with the mototr in revrese as I assesed the anchoring conditions better, maybe I should have gone up river a little farther to find a possible lee closer to shore. It's always 20/20 isn't it? On a lighter day it would have been a slow event that would have been fixed as it was happening or worst case I would have gotten in the dinghy afterwards to fix it then set the stern anchor. The speed of the current and wind that day was what did it. Live and learn. May others watch my experiences and learn from them. These are the stories that live on and we drink beer over and laugh at in the future.


Or that the rudder tube got compromised at the hull join. Might have a crack.

I checked the tube and did not see any problems, but I will certainly check things again once I head out Monday night.


An immediate thought is to cut the top of the repaired rudder at an angle so that THE WARP WILL SLIP AND NOT HANG UP ON THE TOP OF THE RUDDER. Seems actually like a shippy thing to do in this case..

That is a good idea. Instead of having the rudder go all the way to the hull, have a gap of some sort that rode or some other entanglement could go to. This would put the force on the shaft which would be a llowed to bend just a small amount, but would avoid that same force on the rudder.



Sounds like you people are normally anchoring in the middle of a maelstrom.

No, but we do have Old Sow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Sow)which is the largest whirlpool in the western hemisphere up there in Maine.

ebb
07-01-2007, 10:19 AM
Tim,
If I understand, you ARE making a temporary repair so you can continue summer cruising....?

why not continue the curve of the rudder to the shaft. In other words: jigsaw the 'square top' into a curve - so that there is NO FLAT OF ANY KIND to hang up the anchor rode on! And if your temporary repairs are fairly smooth and hydro you can get a feel for the missing area. It is MINOR but must be important because the master left it there in both the ear shaped rudder and the constellation style.

So that even if the anchor rode is pulled across the rudder - which is also pulled hard over - the rode will have to slip!!! So that even if the rudder is pulled out at right angles to the boat like a barn door, there is no ledge for the line to hang up on. Only curves. Have to make it so that line will NEVER hang up the way you describe again!:eek:

Tim Mertinooke
07-27-2007, 11:25 AM
The rudder is repaired and it works.

The repair pictures are on a disk at my house so those will have to wait, but I made up a couple photoshop pics showing the process. Remember that this is a temporary repair to get me through the season and that MacGyverisms are not my norm as I have hopefully proven over the past few months. There is however a certain level of satisfaction and pride involved with making such a repair on the cheap and while it is in the water and on the mooring.

My friend and I dove down and removed the two bronze bolts holding the strap in place. Those came off easy. Prying the strap off of the hull was tougher as I had used 5200 last spring to attach it to the hull. With the right tools and some persuasion we got it off and bent it back enough to lift the rudder out of the shoe. This took us about an hour to complete. Now we had rudder in hand and brought it up on deck where we motored to the dock to do the work.

Here is a photoshop rendition of what the rudder look like when it was removed. The pins coming out of the shaft were broken off and the wood snapped along the grain down to the cutout for the prop aperture.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20repair%2007/rudder%20repair%201.jpg


We decided to make a lateral cut using a pull saw so that the steel pipr could key into the rudder taking advantage of the upper half and lower half that were left once it was sandwiched.


Here is a picture of where we made the cut. BTW-I suck at photoshop when using my laptop which has a touchpad so blur your eyes and imagine a little looking at these photos.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20repair%2007/rudder%20repair%203.jpg


Next, using galvenized 1" steel plumbing pipe we made a shaft attached to a 90 degree elbow off of which was the pipe that keyed into the cutout of the rudder. The two pipes attached to the elbow were set in thickened epoxy and then coated with three layers of cloth running up about 6 inches on each pipe. This was to strngthen the casting of the elbow which was not designed for the forces t was going to undergo and it also sealed the threads and prevents the pipe from unthreading itself out of the elbow when sailing. THis part was pretty straight forward and took about 30 minutes to do and we let it cure for three hours in the hot sun. Once cured, we set the piece into the cutout made earlier in the rudder.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20repair%2007/rudder%20repair%202.jpg


We then sandwhiched the pipe using copper roof flashing on both sides of the lateral pipe followed by 1/4 inch plywood, and on the outside of the ply placed another piece of copper flashing where the lateral pipe is. The flashing was so that the pipe had something solid to push against if the plywood got soft which I'm sure it will as it is regular grade ply (again to make the repair cheap.) I then began screwing galvenized screws into the plywood every couple of inches or so. I put fifty on one side which sandwiched the plywood and flashing to the pipe and what was left of the original rudder. Then I flipped it over and broke off the screw threads that werte sticking through and crewed fifty more going the other way, then flipped it over again and broke the threads of those. At this point it was pretty well sandwiched with no movement of the pipe. We then drilled two 1/4 inch holes just above the copper flashing and two below and used four stainless steel bolts with fender washers and locking nuts to clamp it to the pipe. Then we trimmed the plywood so that it followed the lines of the original rudder and that was it, a new rudder.

It looked something like this once done.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20repair%2007/rudder%20repair%205.jpg+


Having the rudder completed, we went back out to the mooring and slid it up into the tube and set it in the rudder shoe with no problem. THe strap however was a problem. It was the biggest pain trying to get it back through and have it straight enough to line the holes up so that the bolts fit through. It took use about two hours to do this part believe it or not. I'm trying to work out a strap that might be a little easier to take off and put back on in the water. Maybe enlarging the holes and using washers which would allow for a little more play to get the bolts through would work? Speaking of bolts I am very glad I went that route instead of going with the original peened rods that were there originally. I cannot foresee how one could get the strap off underwater with peened ends. Also, I used carraige bolts to reduce the drag, but in hindsight I think it would have been much easier to have a regular hex head bolt. THat way you don't need to grab it with channel locks if you cannot get it to key in all the way to get it started like we had to do.

Here is the sutset we came back too after motoring around for a while testing it out.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/rudder%20repair%2007/rudder%20repair%207.jpg


I spent about $60 and it took a whole day to start and finish this repair. So far we have cruised to the Ilses of Shoals for a few days and sailed in 15 knot winds close-hauled with no problems at all. We have logged about 50 NM with the repaired rudder. I don't think I'll push it in high winds, but 15 knots was quite fun and typical for a nice day here and the rudder worked perfect.

Tim Mertinooke
07-27-2007, 12:24 PM
On our way in 5-10 knot winds. (I opted to flush mount the depth sounder for now for the sake of ease as Bill suggested, it's set in 3M 4200. Yes, that is duct tape you are seeing on the bulkhead. I've been too lazy to fill the holes left from the obnoxious box put in by the PO that I removed.)
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/Isles%201.jpg


A shot of my friends CD27 on the way there.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%203.jpg



A very happy camper at the tiller. The indoctrination continues...
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%202.jpg


Family chilling out down below in the V-berth.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%209.jpg



Approaching the Isles after about 12 miles of sailing. This is looking at the White Island Light. The port winch is being reconditioned due to it sticking often in case you were wondering where it was in that shot.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%204.jpg

At anchor in Gosport Harbor, Maine.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%207.jpg


A sunset, a successful anchoring, a happy wife and kid, a cold beer, a rudder that works...does it get any better?
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%205.jpg


My wife burning through the new Harry Potter book using our new berth lights.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%2010.jpg

This is the next morning looking at my boat with my buddies CD27 rafted up beside. I have a 22lb delta that I use for my primary anchor with 50 feet of 5/16" chain and 150 feet of 3/4 inch rode. The anchor held he and I well with no dragging and it set on the first try. I also have a 35lb bruce anchor with 50 feet of 5/16" chain and 150 ' of 3/4" rode, and a big danforth with a short amount of chain and 150 feet of rode. We took this picture from Smuttynose Island.

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%208.jpg


Here's a shot of that CD27 as we headed back to Newburyport.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Isles%20of%20Shoals%2007/isles%206.jpg

ebb
07-27-2007, 12:48 PM
Taken forever to go thru rudder trauma on Little Gull - finally ending up with a slightly different rudder than most but hung just the same as everybody elses.

FYI. Made up and had cast in bronze a TWO PART gudgeon fitting.
The idea is that it will clamp around the rudder shaft.
One side is meant to stay in place on the keel while the other is taken off to allow the rudder to be lifted up and moved out sideways to drop it. The bolts are long enough to hold both pieces - but the static side is held on with nuts that turn in onto the fiberglass of the keel - then the other half is put on those bolt ends and snugged with more nuts. The rudder will drop on one side of the shoe, port side only in this case. Just came out that way.

If you remember which side to take off, it would be a matter of just unscrewing the nuts to release the gudgeon effect. If underwater you wouldn't want to drop that half of the gudgeon. Nuts you can replace.

Once the sleeve bearing is removed from the top of the rudder tube, there may be enough room, once the rudder is below the shoe, to move the rudder around a bit and away from the fitting. Don't know yet.

Tim Mertinooke
07-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Ebb,
That is a very good idea. It makes a lot of sense to have a two piece casting especially having been there and done that with the strap. That was definitely the hardest part of the repair. Had I had something like you described it would have made it much easier. Do you have any photos, drawings, etc. to give us a visual?

ebb
07-27-2007, 01:21 PM
Tim,
Was putting the above post together while you were giving us some verse on how great it is for you and your family to go on that shakedown!

CONGRATULATIONS:cool:

Underwater!!??
I was thinking, it would be much easier to use a socket wrench under water than a screw driver, or nut driver, ON THE GUDGEON FASTENINGS. Not with a rachet but one with a plain long handle and the socket on a knuckle so you gain purchase. Hope to hell I never have to do it underwater!

Once out of the water, maybe the fitting could be taken apart and put back together with anti-seize Tefgel. Never know!

Bet you forgot about it already....

bill@ariel231
07-28-2007, 07:26 AM
Tim

Bravo! glad to see you got past the rudder problems.

cheers,
bill

Tim Mertinooke
08-21-2007, 07:02 AM
So far we have logged about 200 miles on the repaired rudder with no problems (knock on faux wood laminate.) We have been down in the Salem Mass. area and as far North as Cape Porpoise Maine (Just around the corner from you Mike.)

First we went to Great Misery Island near Marblehead in Salem Sound. This is one of my favorite local cruises because of the shore diversity over a 20 mile stretch of coast. We start off from Newburyport where we keep our boat and head down Plum Island which has eight miles of sandy beach before reaching Cape Ann which has all an granite shore with a few small beaches sprinkled in the coves. Then we traveled through the Annisquam Canal, which allows you to go straight through Cape Ann cutting off about twelve miles if one were to go all the way around it. You need to go under a total of three bridges before you end up in Gloucester Harbor at the bronze fisherman’s memorial seen in the “Perfect Storm”. Two of the bridges need to open for you which my four-year-old son thinks is so cool. At first he though it was me using the Force, but I later admitted I radioed ahead when he wasn’t paying attention. Once in Gloucester you head out of the harbor dodging hundreds of lobster pots along a shore with high granite cliffs. You pass a number of small-uninhabited bare islands before reaching Salem Sound where Great Misery Island lies. Such a cool trip. The pictures…

Here was the first of many stowaways on this trip as we left the Merrimack River.http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%201.jpg

Approaching the Annisquam Canal a few hours later.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/misery%202.jpg<O:p

This is Gloucester Harbor after motoring through the canal. This is looking at Ten Pound Island.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%203.jpg

Too bad it’s blurry, but this is a shot of the sunset after reaching Great Misery Island. That’s my friend’s CD-27. He’s been tagging along on all of my trips. This is his first year sailing. He wanted to learn so he bought a boat and asked if he could follow me around all summer. So far it has worked out great for him. Local knowledge and firsthand experience is unbeatable and he is making great strides.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%204.jpg

This is looking behind my boat on it’s mooring at about half tide. We found some great tide pools right there.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%205.jpg

Sunrise the next morning.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2017.jpg

A couple shots of A-24 sitting peacefully at the mooring.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%206.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2012.jpg

This island has some great hiking trails (http://www.thetrustees.org/documents.cfm?documentID=58). This is looking at Little Misery Island which you can wade to at low tide.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%207.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%209.jpg

This is looking south toward Marblehead where Carl lived. It’s hard to see because it was Hazy in the morning, but there are hundreds of masts sticking up as the whole entire harbor is walled up with boats. On a clear day you would see the Boston skyline in the background.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%208.jpg

Another shot of Little Misery. You can see the remains of an old ship wreck on the beach.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2010.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2011.jpg

This is a shot of Baker's Island light as we were leaving. This Island is part of the city of Salem.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2013.jpg

This is in Gloucester Harbor approaching the Annisquam Canal.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2014.jpg

Here is the Bronze Fisherman's Memorial in Gloucester.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2015.jpg</O:p

we averaged above five knots sailing home with a lateral current. I am impressed with the turn of speed these small full-keeled boats have.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Misery%20Island%202007/Misery%2016.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
08-21-2007, 08:47 AM
Our next trip was north to Maine. We made it as far as Cape Porpoise where there is an awesome anchorage in Stage Island Harbor. We originally wanted to make it up to Biddeford Pool Harbor which is 8 miles to the North of Stage Island, but the weather forecasted as suspect. Next year we plan to spend three weeks cruising Maine making it up to Acadia National Park. This trip was a teaser...

On our way to our first stop in Little Harbor Portsmouth. You can see the Ilses of Shoals off to starboard peaking up over the horizon.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%201.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%202.jpg

We made it to Little Harbor right at sunset which was really cool. Plus we went through a school of small sharks which my son thought was neat. By the time we grabbed a mooring it was dark.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%203.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%204.jpg

A-24 on her mooring. You can see a large building in the background with a red roof. This is the Wentworth by the Sea Hotel where Roosevelt brokered the Treaty of Portsmouth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Portsmouth) to end the Russo-Japanese war.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%205.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%209.jpg

This is Odiorne Point State Park (http://www.nhparks.state.nh.us/ParksPages/Odiorne/Odiorne.html) where there are tons of trails and beach to explore.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%206.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%207.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%208.jpg

We left for Cape Porpoise later in 20-30 knot winds and three foot seas. She handled great.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2010.jpg

This was off of York Maine looking at Mount Agamenticus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agamenticus).
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2011.jpg

This is looking at Cape Island which makes up part of Little Stage Harbor where we were spending the night. The winds had died down considerably at this point.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2012.jpg

After making it around Cape Island, we snuck into the harbor where we were the only ones there with the exception of my friend in his CD-27 who tagged along. Funny enough this quiet lonely anchorage is where the older George likes to picnic. In fact I have a couple friends at the yacht club who have come in and seen secret service boats blocking the southwest part of this small harbor so George can BBQ with the family.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2013.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2014.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2016.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2015.jpg

There were some awesome tide pools to explore. The tidal range is about 10 feet.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2017.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2018.jpg

Operation, "Recover the Dinghy". Looping the painter over the cleat doesn't sut it I guess. I'm lucky it was an incoming tide and I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I'm sure some people have woken up and said, "Hey, where's my dinghy." and have never seen it again.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2019.jpg

This is on our way home looking at the Cape Porpoise Light on Goat Island. There was no wind, not even a puff.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2020.jpg

Just around the corner from that lighthouse is Kennebunkport where the older George lives. You can see the white security markers preventing you from getting too close to shore near his compound. If you want to meet a secret service agent in person tie up to one of those marks for lunch. I hear they come out pretty fast wielding goods.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2021.jpg

This is looking at Nubble Light (http://lighthouse.cc/capeneddick/) on the tip of Cape Neddick.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2022.jpg

We stopped into York Harbor for the night and then back to Newburyport MA from there. It was an awesome trip and the boat performed beautifully. I now have a real clear picture of what the boat needs and what modifications I will make.

On the way into the Merrimack heading back to our mooring we saw an ocean sunfish (http://www.oceansunfish.org/) which are uncommon for this area and the most bizarre looking creatures you will see.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2023.jpg

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%2024.jpg

We spent a night at my folks house and then headed out to the Isles of Shoals again for a Yacht Club overnight BBQ thing. Ten boats left for the Ilses including my parents in their S2 and me in my Ariel. Only two boats made it to the Ilses because there were steady 40 mile an hour winds gusting to 50mph (verified by two different boats outside the river with there anemometers before they turned back) with 4-7 foot seas. When my parents and I got to the Isles it felt like a nice accomplishment being the only two that made it. My dad and I are similar and like these types of challenges, but we are both very experienced and were in control of our boats the whole time. I had the storm jib up and double reefed the main and she sailed like a dream. We were on a beam reach sailing 5.5-6 knots the whole way. We only took about 5 waves into the cockpit which quickly drained and the crew and myself felt safe the whole time. The boat was very well balanced and I had very little strain on the tiller except when I had to fall off and surf down a wave and then turn back into the wind during one of the large gusts. I was very impressed with the way this handled high winds and seas, and set up correctly I would not hesitate to sail this to far off destinations.

mbd
08-21-2007, 10:19 AM
Only two boats made it to the Ilses because there were steady 40 mile an hour winds gusting to 50mph... I had the storm jib up and double reefed the main and she sailed like a dream.... I was very impressed...
I went out last weekend in 1/2 the weather you describe, with the same set up, and was also very impressed with how well Sea Glass behaved and took care of us. I was thinking of starting a dedicated "reefing" thread and ask for everyone's input and pics of their reefing setups. But now, I should get back to work and stop daydreaming.

BTW, thanks for the inspirational update Tim! I hereby declare that Sea Glass will venture forth for at least a week next Summer with her crew of 4! Perhaps we can meet up then. :)

PS. Love this pic! It's like Archimedes is a beacon in the anchorage. (Also like the wide-angle one. Nicely framed...)

http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Maine%202007/Maine%205.jpg

Tim Mertinooke
08-21-2007, 12:01 PM
I hereby declare that Sea Glass will venture forth for at least a week next Summer with her crew of 4! Perhaps we can meet up then.

With great enthusiasm, I look forward to meeting you and your family next year on the water. I was hoping to get to Casco Bay this year, but the rudder issue set me back some and I calmed my ambitions down considerably as I didn;t want to be too far from home if my repair failed. We are planning some cliche' stops in Casco Bay next year as I mentioned in an earlier post like Jewell and Eagle Islands. My wife and son have never been there before and they both warrant a stop. We plan to hit the basin and hang out in the best hurricane hole on the east coast, then just bump our way up to Acadia. It is about thirty hours of sailing to get to Acadia from our mooring and we are still working out a loose itinerary. My friend in his CD-27 will probably be with us and my parents expressed interest although they would probably be with us for just a week. What would be a lot of fun would be for you guys to hook up with us for a couple days or more. Even if it's when we buzz through Casco Bay. We'll take some great pictures of two Ariels rafted up for the night in a cozy harbor somewhere in Maine. It doesn't get much better than that.

mbd
08-22-2007, 07:04 AM
Sounds good!

Tim Mertinooke
10-13-2007, 09:01 AM
Click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdYIDgNzq0) to see a video of A-24 sailing

Tim Mertinooke
10-14-2007, 11:17 AM
This was our first trip out to the Isles in July taken by my friend in his CD-27

http://www.mrmert.com/images/ariel/Ariel%20Isles.JPG

bill@ariel231
10-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Tim
that looks like it was a fun trip, I haven't see an ocean sun fish that close. For some reason we get more than our fair share of sea turtles and seals playing around the boat (although the camera is always home when that happens :o ).
Cheers,
Bill

Tim Mertinooke
10-14-2007, 12:45 PM
We'll have some during the summer where I am, but in the winter they sit in large groups sunning themselves on rocks. This picture was taken near my mooring.
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/seal_2.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
10-15-2007, 08:22 AM
http://www.mrmert.com/images/Ariel_Alone.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
10-16-2007, 05:46 PM
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Ariel%20York.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
10-17-2007, 03:32 PM
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Ariel%20Schooner.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
10-18-2007, 03:27 PM
http://www.mrmert.com/ariel24/images/Ariel%20Portsmouth.JPG

Tim Mertinooke
10-27-2007, 07:06 PM
I sold my beloved Ariel today. She went to a nice home and will be well taken care of.

bill@ariel231
10-27-2007, 08:15 PM
trading boats can make for a bitter sweet day. A-24 did well by you getting back in service and finding her next home. good luck with Excalibur!
:)