Red Pepper

[mbowman]

Hey guys! I am new here and this is my first post. I've been in a partnership on a 1966 Ariel for 3 years and it is "finally" mine! all mine! :) We've been sailing it in the warm waters of Moblie Bay, Alabama (great sailing by the way) but have just recently pulled it out and up to the Birmingham, Alabama area. No more salt water! YEAH! :D While it is on the trailor, the bottom has to be done. So i'll be asking some questions as I go. The hull looks ok but I did notice some spongy glass about one foot from the rudder at the very bottom of the keel. that is drying now, but i'm concerned about the "wood piece that the rudder goes in to" (not sure of the name of that) It looks like water has seeped in there and is now dripping out. I'll try and get some pics tomorrow that may shed some light on the subject.
it is great to see a site of "real" sailors.
any help is appricated.
thanks
mike

[Bill]

Welcome to the group. What is your boat's hull number?

Please use the search function to research the hull's water seepage. Try "keel voids," "rudder shoe," and etc. Then post your questions. :)

[eric (deceased)]

unless yours has been modified. that spongy area near the rudder will be eternally draining water until that enclosed section of the hull is dry. how long has it been in the water??thats how long water has been seeping in. probably from the wrist pins thru the goudgeouns and the rudder shoe itself.I had an ariel for a while and have done some single handed sailing on these boats---so I think I know at least somewhat about these very fine vessels indeed.I will soon be in the market for one----again.the rudder post is brass or bronze--let the rudder dry out and grind out the rotted areas and then fill it in and coat with a fine grade epoxy.a long time ago I simply used "Gluvit" and it magically sailed from california to hawaii and back.dont ask me where I was when I turned east----to this day all I can figure is that I was about 600 miles south east of kodiak---and it was cold enuff to be so.besides----those things are for big ships and planes---so get those ludicruos thoughts out of your mind----thats what I was told by people who to this day cant believe it--you know---we really didnt land on the moon --did we???

[c_amos]

Mike,



Welcome aboard! How did the partnership work out for you? Have heard of folks doing that, seems like there are some potential problems with the arrangement... glad it worked out for you.



As Bill mentioned, the 'search' function yields a wealth of knowledge on most topics. Part of the issue is that you can't see all the threads, it also has to do with the problem with some of the information being buried in other threads with different topics being discussed.




but I’m concerned about the "wood piece that the rudder goes in to" (not sure of the name of that)



I believe that the piece you are referring to is the 'rudder shoe' which is actually made of bronze.



Good luck, and welcome to the support group...... come on everyone....



"Hello Mike"!

[Sprite]

The previous owner of my boat changed everything to bronze

John :)

[mbowman]

hey guys thanks for the post and the information.... rudder shoe ? well ok that makes sense!
Comments on the partnership: well the advantages are the cost. instead of you fittin the bill alone, it is shared. thats about the only advantage i see. the disadvantages are multiple. and i think all in our party will agree. First, when a "work day" is scheduled not everyone can show up. 2nd "Can we just decide on one way of doing this!" (that happed more than once). 3rd "Is it my turn to clean the boat." 4th "IT didn't look this way when i left it!" The list goes on. Even though the cost of this boat is only my responsiblity, it is still MY responsiblity!

Well i went down to the boat yesterday and sanded and grinded for a while. Turns out there was water between the hull and the Keel. Is this common, and how does it get there. PICS will follow! I put 2 holes at the bottom of the keel that I am going to have to repair. but at least i know where the water is from.

After I post some pics.. i'll ask some more questions.
Again thanks guys .... i was wondering where i was going to get some help like this

[mbd]

"Hello Mike"!

As Bill mentioned above, check out the Keel Voids (http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=604) thread.

Welcome aboard.

[mbowman]

[This is a continuation of my first post. Again, thanks again for all the good info on the problems with the water in the keel and rudder shoe (yeah! i know what to call that thing)
I was out sanding on the bottom and i found some weeping and dripping from the keel. Also very soft glass foward of the rudder shoe. (photo 004) I cut that out and found the wet foam (photo 006) after cleaning out the wet foam i noticed the rest of the glass looked to be strong and sound. repairing this should be no problem. I have a friend that sells the new foam that is put in the new bass boats for strenght and floatation. i am thinking about putting that foam in the void before glassing over it.... any ideas concerning this ?

[mbowman]

While sanding forward of the damaged part, i noticed more leaking with soft glass. So why not! I cut that out also. I found the mother load of water. water was trapped between the lead and the glass hull. looking at other post this doesn't seem to be unusual. Over a gallon flowed freely. (photo 008) after cutting away a small bit, I found the lead, the cavity forward of the lead, and the very small amouth of foam under the lead. (photo 016).
Again i am thinking about spraying that expandable foam in the void forward of the lead, and just under the lead. sanding, then reglassing the damage.
any advice would help!
thanks
mike

[mbowman]

Oh yeah here is a few pics of the boat. My brother Alan and my son Scott on Mobile Bay, Ala. then me and my son .
Photo 017 on the trailor, then 018 ........ Its new home!
more to come later.

mike

[eric (deceased)]

in case you already did not.SAILING AN ARIEL TO HAWAII AND BACK.this is the latter half of a two part tell-all true account of my "5 year voyage----to search out new life---and new civilizations----TO BOLDLY GO WHERE I NEVER HAVE GONE BEFORE!!!!!{sorry---thatza "play" on that startrek thing}

[ebb]

Hello Mike, Alan, Scotty,
Got yerselves a real special project thar. ;)

Wonder what caused those soft areas? Fiberglass just doesn't go soft normally so it has to be from physical damage, like the boat got dropped, or run aground.
Advice would be common practice. Grind away all loose material. Grind the hull up and around from any wound in a graduated fashion so that when you layer it back together your patches go from smaller at the holes to larger on up to the final layers. Maybe ten times larger, final layer. When you fair the hull after it's set, you'll be grinding some of it away. But you still want to end up with a wide patch over a small hole.
I personally would use a good 100% solids laminating epoxy.
But I'd be asking why do you want to put chicken foam in the voids? If those hollows don't go back very far why not stuff them with epoxy mixed with cabosil and chopped strand. Or you could copy what Pearson did and jam in resin soaked fiberglass with a broom handle. I just think more structural is better down there.
Once lamenting the poor choice we have for space fill with my resin supplier he suggested styrofoam pellets and epoxy with a little thickner if needed. I've never yet tried it. Urethane foams are not closed cell and will let water in.
My favorite glass is Knynex X-mat. A well behaved material made of a couple layers of mat and oriented strand loosely sewn together. Said to be just as strong as glass cloth. It has been versitile for me. Regular mat doesn't work with epoxy.
Itching to have fun, huh? :D

[eric (deceased)]

in 1981 I paid 8900 bux for my ariel.it included a somewhat functional yet dysfunctional "10 hp merc" outboard.{too big and too heavy for my intented purpose---too clumsy to replace and remove from the outboard well for the necessary long term intervals}.it was eventually replaced by a more "user friendly" smaller outboard---this "mariner" 5 hp was interchanged to the achillies inflatable at the same time.when I sold it after ---well---you know---I got 4500 for it{monitor sold separately}.I also got 6000 nautical miles of mostly single handed blue water long distance ocean crossing voyaging out of it.the cost of the preparation for that can not be estimated.but the wealth I acheived in the means of personal gain is priceless.jus'what does an average run of the mill ariel go for these days???jus' the simple vessel----I wont buy a boat just because of its included toys.I will get those myself later.whass'that the brokers always say in the fine print----"SPECIFICS BELIEVED TO BE CORRECT BUT NOT GUARANTEED"{that means the 300 feet of anchor line specified in the equiptment list is more like 100.} :confused:

[mbd]

... My favorite glass is Knynex X-mat. A well behaved material made of a couple layers of mat and oriented strand loosely sewn together. Said to be just as strong as glass cloth. It has been versitile for me. ...Hey Ebb, where do you get your supplies? A local store? Online anywhere?

[mbowman]

Sailing to Hawaii in an Ariel ? wow what a trip!
Ebb, Thanks for the tips patching the hole. start small and work out... i got it!
Runnin aground was common for my two other partners...... So the soft glass could have came from that.... also the boat was on the trailor for quite some time and could have had some stress on the lower keel.

my next post will give a little history of the Red Pepper

mike

[mbowman]

My uncle purchased the Red Pepper around 12 years ago from a Navy, Blue Angel pilot from Pensacola Florida. The pilot outfitted her as a racer. Double head sail track and multiple sails just began the refit. The Red Pepper has a sail inventory of over 10 sails.
These include:
4 storm jibs
100 percent, 110, 135, 165, 170,
a very thin "drift" sail
2 spinakers, one thin, and a heavy
all of the jibs, and genoa's are outfitted with the racing track leading edge.
this is a very fun boat to sail. But one of the problems is in the racing double track. The last time my old partners, (before i was in the picture) did a refit, they bent the racing track. sooooo needless to say it either has to be replaced or change the sails to hank on's. . The last few times out the tracks were getting worse and worse. i'm thinking about changing just a few sails to hanks. even at $5.00 per hank it would be worth it. I like hanks more that that agravating track!
the cabin has been totally redone, but not very classy. more on that later.

like i said the Pepper is (was) a fun boat to sail.... once we ran the heavy spinaker in a 15 knot wind for over 20 miles. we were on a broad reach the whole way. 900 lbs of human balast on the leward rail and the windward rail was burried almost the entire 2 hours.... wow what a rush... yeah i love these Ariels....
more later
mike

[mbowman]

well my purchase was a little strange.... The partnership i was in also included a 1966 Columbia 38'. we purchased it for 15,000 3 yrs ago and sailed it from New Orleans to Gulf Shores, Alabama. after that we gutted it... inside... 2 yrs., 4 hurricaines, a rebuilt engine, recoring part of the deck, rewiring, replumming, and lots more "crap" i got out of "that" partnership.
I handed over my part of the Columbia for all of the Pearson. :D
I feel blessed. Even with the work that has to be done! I feel blessed :D
so how much did I pay..... who knows!

[eric (deceased)]

these 4 did me in in west palm florida.I was living on an islander 29 for 6 years---those storms screwed up everything.my boat survived jeanne,but the marina was destroyed.I since moved it to dania florida---but that scene ended abruptly when my employment was "downsized".I am now in las vegas near lake mead.I dont know if you are familiar with my ariel/triton history---do a search on "sailing an ariel to hawaii and back".thats me---now I will most likely look for an ariel again---somewhere----anywhere on the near west coast or in the lake----as these boats seem to be trailor friendly.I can transport it here from----well california---somewhere thereabouts.I will be in the market within the next year---just to have it as----well---something to do.I do not need to go "sailing" just to go "sailing".I will go sailing to go---"beyond tomorrow".I am not looking foward to that first 600 miles north-{EVERY 5 SECONDS 24 HOURS A DAY FOR 5 DAYS---THE BOAT WOULD SURGE UP THE FACE OF THESE TRADEWIND SEAS ---THEN COME CRASHING DOWN THE BACKSIDE---}--jusda' thought of it---makes me wanna' puke

[ebb]

Got the name wrong,
It's Knytex X-Mat. Two unidirectional fabric layers at 45 degrees with a layer of chopped strand on the bottom loosely sewn together. Two weights I've used are a 19.3 oz sq yd and 25.3 oz sq yd. Also a 4" wide X-Mat, great for tabbing. There are probably other sizes but that is what my local plastics store has. www.tapplastics.com

Other suppliers must have something like this stuff. It's the 45 degree angle orientation that makes this stuff so 'conformable'. You still have to make darts and shape cuts when turning corners. When it's wet out it can be pushed into right angle corners. However, it needs help on outside corners.
You can run a plastic spatula all over the surface to press the juice into every fiber and it won't bubble up or pull up or distort like cloth. Does use a lot of epoxy.
But you'd use this material to build structures like hatches, decks, patch holes, etc.

Have not comparison shopped. I just assume it's expensive. TAP isn't a vivacious marketer, rather dudly. Somebody else has to have it. Maybe under another name. Make sure it's good for epoxy, some glass fabric materials can only be used with polyester. TAP is a kind of a Plastics hobby shop that does exorbitantly priced acrylic display boxes as a main part of its business. There must be a roll and sheet supplier near you. Of course, there's the surf shops!

[mbd]

Thanks Ebb. Great web site! Very well organized and informative. Goggling "Knynex X-mat" didn't come up with anything. :)

[Mike Goodwin]

There is more to it in switching to hanks , the luff . Right now you have a rope luff , in all but the lightest drifter and genoa that needs to be changed to a wire luff . You can get away with the rope for a while , but the sail will last longer with the wire .

[ebb]

G'mornin all you Mikes! :D

So found on
www.fiberglasssupply.com
under knitted fabrics, we have
19.3 oz and 25.3 oz knitted double bias (the 45 degree stuff) with 3/4 oz mat. Has to be a generic description of the Brand name above. Cut yd $13.

Also listed is a knitted triaxial bias which must be 3 cloth layers and probably stiffer. There is a range of lighter oz double knits without the mat.

The heavier stuff I've gotten to like so much with the mat must have been developed for layup of hulls in female molds. Obviously it's fabricated without starch binders to be used with all resins. Have no experience with any of these other fabrics - maybe you'll get around to it, Mike. These are all underlayer fabrics in a traditional laminate. But for general repairs and tabbing it scrapes and shapes and grinds down just fine. I use it for everything.

TAP has gone thru some ownership changes since its early days. It doesn't carry the range of products one would expect. I think they have seriously missed the boat. I would converse with Fiberglass Supply, because of their selection. Maybe they have a friendly sales desk. One that will help you cut thru the snobbery that comes with knowing something you don't. It's a rampant problem, and it's probably due to the fact that the person you need info from doesn't know all that much about it either. Or considers himself a 'professional' rather than a true lover of the art (amatuer.) It just so happens that TAP in San Raphael, Calif has a group of guys who have worked with the materials they sell or like Andy there have worked building boats in the past.
Mike Goodwin has mentioned goodguy suppliers on threads here, and knows his resins.
And don't buy high priced adulterated name brand resins. (We just had an interbux barrier coat system PRIMER go off with a blush, in the yard - UNbelievable!!) :p

[ebb]

more pictures!!!

[mbowman]

Well here is my "Red Pepper" 18 months later after the work was done. There is still much work to be done, but at least I'm sailing it offen.
more pix to come.
mike

[mbowman]

As Previously mentioned, over 12 sails came with this boat. All of the headsails were outfitted with a rope in the luff to be used in a quick change racing track. (that was damaged prior to me owning the boat) Now I am changing over to hanks and since I don't race I have no use for all those sails. I am, of course going to keep one Spinaker, 165 genoa, 100 jib, and one storm jib. If anyone needs sails for your Arial, let me know. I'll try and measure and photograph the sails for inventory.
Mike

[Tim Mertinooke]

She looks great and appears to be sitting on her lines well. What a feeling it is to attack a hull with a grinder, reglass and have it float a short time later. More pictures of that beauty please! Tim

[ebb]

Good on ya, Mike!

Sailing the boat is Everything.

[mbowman]

Well there she is! This is a shot my son, Scott took for his magazine class. I think they are using this one as one of the posters to advertise the magazine! I think he's a pretty good photographer. I love the reflection!

[mbowman]

Here's another he took just for class. He was playing with depth of field. These are the hanks I put on after cutting away the luff because of the racing track. I know its probably not proper but we just wanted to get this boat in the water. After i get some more funds (maybe after some of you buy some of my sails:rolleyes: ) I'm going to send 3 sails to a sailmaker to get them recut and to get them to reset new hanks properly! Until then....... I'm going to go sailing!

[mbowman]

This is Scott! He's a senior in high school. He loves sailing, photography, music, and Jesus! I'm so proud of him. He's going to Jacksonville State University to study music! He plays trumpet, drums, and guitar. I guess he's following in his dad's footsteps. It's great to have a son that you can relate too and enjoy time together! This day was just a dad and son day! My wife and daughter chose to stay home on this day! there's always next week!

[mbowman]

I still have some work to do on the bow. The bow light was mounted on a nice piece of wood until Hurricane Katrina. All the wiring is there, I just have to build a platform for the light. I didn't take any pix of the work, but this past spring I removed 7 feet of the starboard deck between the rail and the cockpit. All of my balsa was rotten, wet, and spongy. We had to do that on our 38' Columbia a few years ago, so I wasn't that nervous about it. Still, there is something scary about taking a Skill Saw to your deck. But all is well, my 260 lb frame doesn't make the deck give when I walk on it..... at least not in that area. I'll probably have to do the Port side this year.

[mbowman]

She's still the best looking girl in the Marina. AND the biggest. 26 foot is a big boat on this inland lake.....

[mbowman]

As previously said, I have some extra sails that I would like to sale. here is a pic of 3 storms and 2 Genoa's.
The #1 storm jib has 2 reef points. The 135% Genoa also has a reef point. Some sails are better than others. I would put them in the Fair to Very Good range.
If you want more information i.e. measurments, more pic's etc. just let me know.

[commanderpete]

Nice inventory.

Do you recall what kind of headstay system was on the boat? Maybe a tuff-luff?

If the sails have a #6 luff tape they could be used on most furling units. A sun cover could be added to the sail.

[mbowman]

thanks,
I'm not sure the name of the system. I do know it had 2 tracks for quick change. I wish it didn't get messed up, when it worked right it was great. I just don't have $600 to replace it, or the money for a furling unit.
You asked about a Asy Spinaker? I also have a Drift Sail. Some folks use that as a Asy. we use it just to get "some" breeze moving. Of course I have a 170 that is paper thin, Almost like a Spinaker. I'm going to put hanks on that one and it shoul perform very well in the light wind we have up here.
As far as the Drift, the next time I'm at the boat, I'll get that one and the Spinaker i'm selling and take pics.
Well happy Sailing! hopefully we will get to go Monday.
mike

[mbowman]

this is a poem that my son Scott wrote for a Class he has in school. He also took the photo that is the background. He does love his sailing!

[c_amos]

:D

That is great!

We will be bringing Faith back to Pensacola after we return from the Bahamas. We will practicaly be neighbors.

The boat is looking great, good luck on selling the sails. I would like a strom jib myself, but don't know when I will be back home to make the arrangements. Maybe if you still have something left when I get back we can get together.

[mbowman]

Joe, here is the photo's and measurements of the #2 storm jib.

[mbowman]

And here is the # 3 storm jib. All of the stiching is very good on both sails. But there is a few ragged ends as you can see from the photo's. #3 has a few more stains than # 2 but both in very good working order. If you need any more information let me know.
mike

[mbowman]

Just wanted to post some pics of this weekend.....
What do you get when you take a three bass fisherman sailing in 25 knot wind?
The need for speed. The young guy in the Alabama hat said..."now that I've been sailing, does this make me a salesman?"
The older guy got soaking wet when a gust blew in when we had the Spinnaker up. He was sitting on the low side, I looked down and the winch was under water....he was wet from his waist down!
Oh by the way even when these boats are almost knocked over they still want to move!!

[mbowman]

Just curious, how far have you guys had your Ariel heeled over? And do you know what is the optimum heel angle for sailing an Ariel.

[Bill]

And do you know what is the optimum heel angle for sailing an Ariel.

18 to 22 degrees is good, but you can still sail at nearly 90! More wind, more fun. Who bothers to reef? Above 25 kts, maybe. Keep the weight on the high side. We've had water running along the big windows while we stood on the bulkhead under opposite cockpit seat. :D Probably slowed us a bit, but boy does the adrenalin pump! Of course, if the ob engine is still in the well, the gas can will be floating ;)

Just a typical summer afternoon on the SF Bay. :cool:

[mbowman]

Oh you "West Coast" guys make me jealous!!! :rolleyes:we land lubbers only dream of days like we had Saturday.
Oh well but we can still dream:)
Hey I understand the whole floating gas can gig. One of the guys said, "Hey wheres the gas smell coming from!!!!:D Anyway great days!!!

[mbowman]

Well, time has come to pull A-233 out of the water and do a complete Refit. When I pulled the boat three years ago, I did just enough maint. to get by. Sand and paint the hull and the bottom. I did find many soft spots in the keel and water in the Keel Void. I did as much as my ability and know how could at the time. The main thing is we went sailing for a good three years. Well now that I'm a little older and wiser "thanks to reading this Forum on a weekly basis", and that I've got some more time to piddle with the project, and the fact that I have some MAJOR reconstruction to be done (like delamination of the decks, a much better bottom job than before, a Refit of the cabin, replacing the cabin floor, etc.....) It was time to pull it out and get busy. I'll be posting weekly and I'm sure asking lots of questions. I'll try and post photos when I can.
So "Here I go again!"

[Rico]

Good luck and keep us posted with pics! You'll be glad you took care of all the bits & pieces when you are back in the water!

[mbowman]

thanks Rico! Hey hows those sails working out?

[mbowman]

Just an update on the refit... I've cut away most of the deck in the bow and all of the port side. MAJOR delamination. this is going to be a long process! Maybe after Christmas I'll get more time to work on her.

[bill@ariel231]

good luck, the demolition this is the tough part. it gets easier once the new deck installed and she looks like a boat again.

just a cautionary tale on a recore from above, be sure to shore up the inner skin of the foredeck until the new deck is cured. a friend of mine had to re-do the cockpit of his frers when a sizeable area sagged while the epoxy was curing.

cheers,
bill@ariel231 :)

[mbowman]

Hey guys what do you think about using Cedar in the interior of the Ariel. Since I'm in the rebuilding and remodeling stage and I have a large Cedar tree at my disposal I thought I might try it.... I'm kind of thinking about lining the lockers and maybe even planking the forward bunk area..... Your opinions ????
Have any of you ever worked with Cedar Before?

[Commander 147]

First the very same properties of the wood that help to keep bugs out of the wood also can cause allergic reactions in people. It is not uncommon for people to not be able to work with cedar because of a sensitivity to it.

Second unless you are using western red cedar there are lots of knots in the material. And while the knots give the wood some of it's charachter, they can also give you issues when working with it. They can blow out at you if they are not sound when running through the tablesaw and they are hard on planner blades and router bits.

The rest of the wood is very soft. It will dent and gouge easily during and after it has been installed.

If none of the above bothers you then have at it. You could pick worse woods to use on a boat. The wood deals with moisture very well which is why here in Florida it is used very frequently as facia and soffit material. Or at least it was in the not to distant past before it became more economical to use a lower grade wood and metal facia and soffit.

[ebb]

Hey Mike,
What kind of cedar?
You have a large TREE available?
It'll have to go through many stages, including drying, before it can be used as lumber.
'Soft' Western Red Cedar has been used for interior yacht joinery and paneling.
You might have Atlantic White Cedar which has characteristics like WRC.
Keeping things light, using it for ceiling up forward sounds good!

Not known for splinters.
Closer to the interior of the tree you get denser wood, probably better for joinery. On the west coast generally available and reasonable priced, altho clear stuff is expensive.

There are some boss cedar and cypress used in boat building. Check out
www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5d.html
[ imco they are behind the times in plywood recommendations.]


I've worked WRC and if I wasn't using mahogany I would use it except for rails. I've worked Alaska Yellow Cedar - a very different (strong) cedar than white or red. Many coniferous woods are misnamed: they can be junipers, cypress, pine or cedar. Just looked up AWC and found it actually is a cypress.;)
I'd say most of these aromatic woods loose their fresh milled pungency sitting around. As soon as you seal the wood, which you will probably do inside the Ariel the smell is gone. Eastern Red Cedar used raw for drawer and locker lining has for most people a very pleasant and long lasting scent.


What kind of cedar you got there?

[mbowman]

I HAD the eastern Red Cedar... I went to get it the other day and someone had taken it.... there are others in the plot of land... but they are not cut yet. I'm not anywhere at the point of refiting the interior as of yet... still got a lot of work to do on the deck (as soon as it warms up and drys out) this rain is killing us! But Thank God for it! Thanks for the update on the Cedar guys. I'll try and post some pix later on my progress

[mbowman]

Well, I've made a hard decision. I'm going to have to scrap The Red Pepper. The more I get in to this, the more problems I run in to. The more I sand... the deeper the problems. The entire deck is gone from delamination. The more I sand the hull the more problems come out that was hidden from layers and layers of poor repair jobs in the past. Major hull cracks and not just gel coat. So sad to say the old girl is getting scraped. So I do have some parts to sell and many to give away. The mast, boom and main sail are spoken for. I have winches... deck organizers... teak...sails... a spinnaker pole... pulpit rail... stern rail... lifelines... stanchions...cleats...etc.
I will take photos and post them in another thread in the For Sale area of this forum. Of course some things I'm going to keep for the next boat, but most everything will go.
If anyone needs anything let me know.....
mike.... a sad Ariel owner....

[ebb]

That's really HARD to take, Mike.
I'm sorry this is the course you have taken.....
Have you tried Craig's List?

[mbowman]

Not yet... I've had a few people want a couple of sails... when I get the list all together I'll try that route as well as ebay and of course this forum.

[mbowman]

here ya go mike

[c_amos]

Mike,

Before you put her down, would you like a second opinion? It would be a couple hundred miles, but if you have not started the scrapping process I could drive up and maybe take a look, do a little exploratory surgery with you... maybe if you had a second set of hands, you could still save her?

The offer is on the table if you are interested.

Craig

[mbowman]

Well Craig.... "the man with the saw" is not in any hurry. I wouldn't want you to make a special trip, but if you coming up this way sure I'd love another opinion! I'm only 20 miles out of Birmingham. Let me know!
mike

[ebb]

Craig,
Good on you, mate!
That's beautiful!

[bill@ariel231]

Mike,
mid-demolition was the low point for A-231 as well. once I recored the foredeck she really perked up. I found the recore of the entire foredeck took just 3 days using exterior plywood and a 5 gallon pail of epoxy. I thought about balsa core but at that point wanted to be sure i had a boat worth finishing. Here is A-231 at that point lots of holes to go but getting ready for paint.... http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1230-A-231-Periwinkle&highlight=periwinkle
good luck!
bill@ariel231

[c_amos]

Well Craig.... "the man with the saw" is not in any hurry. I wouldn't want you to make a special trip, but if you coming up this way sure I'd love another opinion! I'm only 20 miles out of Birmingham. Let me know!
mike

Ok folks, who is local enough and able to do this?

I have commitments for the weekend of 1-2 Oct, but could come up during the week, or a later weekend. I am posting this here, rather then PM because I wonder if there might be anyone else here who would like to get in on this?

If we had a couple gallons of epoxy, and maybe some balsa / foam core and could knock out some of the big scary stuff fast the rest might not look so bad>?

Maybe you could post some pictures of the cracks (many of us know only too well what the decks will be like already). :)

The lay up on these boats is so significant that it is hard to imagine anything that can not be fixed structurally fairly quickly... maybe a 'tiger team' approach would help take the edge off of the trouble with getting it going alone (daunting at times, I know).

[Tony G]

Mike, Craig

I wish I was within a couple hundred miles and I would be there for a long weekend or two. Just getting a good bite out of the project would help see her through. Realistically, I don't have much to offer except good wishes. If there is anything, let me know.

[mbowman]

Ok guys I'm still not sure about what I'm going to do with "Red Pepper". At the moment I'm leaning towards biting the bullet and fixin' her up. But I still have a couple of sails to sale. I have mid weight Genoa and a very light Drift sail for sale. Both have a Luff of 30, Leech 29, Foot 17. Both are in "good" condition. Both have small stains and a little corrosion on the rings. The price from Second wind sails for these are $400 each. I'll sell each for $200.00. or make me an offer. I'll post photos and more details on the "General/OFF topic" side of this forum.
Let me know if anyone is interested.

[Rico]

Go for it Mike!
You'll be very glad you did when you get her out sailing. You know that...
Having a bit of help will do wonders. When you work on a boat, there is always a LOW spot to reach before it starts to feel better.



BTW - a Comment on 180% (17' foot) Genoas in General. (my experience)

I have one of these puppies - almost exactly the same dimensions. It seems that these were common on Commanders somewhere on the east coast (some light air location) at some point...

They are HUGE!

I do not use it very often at all, but that is only because we have plenty of wind here in SF bay. I really like it during the few calm breeze days that come during the winter months. They do wonders in light air!

They will do a great job up until you get into the 10-12 kt range when they clearly get you overpowered. I have very happy memories while using it in a very light air day during a race. We were on a nice reach in maybe 5-6 kts - flat water... and passing a dozen or so 30+LOA boats in about 1/2 mile! They thought I had my engine on!

Mine is made of a very lightweight Dacron (about 2-3 times as heavy as spinnaker material... but Dacron - so it is not a drifter). It still folds-up into quite a small 'package', so I always have it with me.

If you generally sail in light conditions one of these might come in handy...

[mbowman]

Yeah, I'm keeping my light 180% ! the guy who had the boat 20 years ago had outfitted it with 13 sails! I'm keeping the light weight 180%, the 110%, storm jib and a spinnaker. I think those will serve me well! Do you think the price is ok for those two?
By the way hows the sails I sold you last year working out?