The Daysailor Craze

[commanderpete]

major conversion on a Triton.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?boat_id=1429750&checked_boats=1429750&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=27026&url=

[S.Airing]

Yea,I remember when this article when it came out ,I think I still have it somewhere.This guy spent alot of money for a day sailer.The original artical listed his budget,all the work was done by a yard so he had alot of labor cost.

[Mike Goodwin]

I love it !
There is a hull in Norfolk .Va. that was started , they loped off the big cabin , and that is as far as they got . It's been sitting for years in the back of the boatyard .

[commanderpete]

I've decided to paint my Commander blue, and fly a big flag

Hinckley DS42

Morris 42

Friendship 40

J100

Morris 36

[c_amos]

Naw Pete,



You can't fool us. Those are nothing but a bunch of 'wanna be Commanders'



Bunch of Posers!

[commanderpete]

That's what I keep telling myself.

I do like a big flag. My regular flag is 30" long.

The 4 foot flag is for Memorial Day and the 4th of July

[Tony G]

C'Pete,

Do you think I can still cash in on this daysailor craze? We've got this old Pearson Ensign that I want to 'redo'.

Ultimately I'll have to let her go because we've been rezoned here and a makeshift boat yard doesn't fit in with the planning comminsion's goal. (bunch of facist pinko's) Until then I'll pay their paltry fines to satiate their desires.

But, if I could get another five to seven years out of this 'wave' I'm thinking we could make good on that 'free' ensign. Well, not really make any money at it, but, we could have a good time doing it :cool:

You in?

no commanders were endangered in writting this post

[Al Lorman]

C'Pete:

I saw two more blue-hulled day sailers at the Annapolis Boat Show, a Bruckmann and an Alerion Express 38. (Sorry, I'm not as good as you at posting photos.) Nothing like originality, eh.

Al Lorman

[commanderpete]

I don't know Tony. An Ensign or Commander is way too small for daysailing. It seems you need a boat about 40 feet long to enjoy the simple pleasures.

Al, I found a picture of a Bruckman 42. A relative bargain at only a 1/2 million.

Haven't seen the new Alerion 38 yet. Its different than the 38 yawl. This is a sloop with a carbon mast, no backstay, big roachy main. (Isn't that what your Freedom has?)

Anyway, I think the Friendship 40 is the prettiest of the bunch

Slideshow

http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/F40_slideshow/B.html

Of course she needs a big flag

[Al Lorman]

C'Pete:

I don't know what marketing whiz gave the new Alerion the exact same name as a boat they built about ten years ago. The new 38 is basically an enlarged version of the Alerion Express 28. As you noted, it has a carbon fiber mast with no backstay and a big roach main, but it does have spreaders and stays, so the diameter of the mast is a lot smaller than that of my unstayed Freedom. (I actually got to meet Garry Hoyt when I looked at the boat.)

I confess that I found all of these big, expensive day sailers a bit too much of a muchness. They were all so pretty that it is clear that showing off seems to be their principal goal (except for the J100, which looks downright plain). I saw a smaller day sailor that I did like a lot, the French Tofinou 9.5. It is expensive (c. $150K), but it actually looks like it was built for sailing.

Of course, if anyone is desparate for a lovely day sailer and wants to spend less than six figures, there's Tim Lackey's Triton-hulled Daysailor, http://www.thedaysailor.com/, a bargain at only 89,900.

And, speaking of bargains, I just bought a 1979 Dyer Dhow sailing dinghy which the owner swears has never been in the water. The Dhow is said to be one of the original fiberglass boats, the first having been built in 1946 or 1948 (I don't remember which).

Al

[frank durant]

My vote goes to the'bridges point 24', it's a work of art to my eyes,has over 50%ballast,lots of sail erea,a beautiful sheer,nice overhangs and a functional cabin (with very limited headroom). These lil beauties have been built in Maine for approx 20yrs now by the same family and start at only $39000 with sails,bottom paint and bronze hardware!!! A real relative bargain !! Check them out at www.bridgespoint.com

[frank durant]

I got looking back and in the nov.1987 (never throw out good magazines) small boat journal there is a review of 4 lil keel boats.The sea sprite was one and this bridges point24 was onother.Its the only one still built.PS...the bridges point was 'the fleetest of the fleet' in the review.

[ebb]

The Bridges Point 24
which is certainly comparable to the Commander.
So I cursor the link Frank has for us and
there is nothing there!
These bittey postage stamp fotos you can't SEE.
Not even interesting fotos.
Are they proud of their boat?
Is the joinery and appointments real class.....?

Do they sell many BP 24s?
One hell of a presentation.


After years of agoogling to goggle little ships
I've learnt NEVER to visit a 'specifications' site.
Because there where the boat should be displayed in all its glory
is a page of words and numbers.

[Bill]

Great little boat and it sure does track our yachts (18' in lenght at the water line!). The $39K appears to include only the bare essentials, and if I'm reading the extras list correctly, running lights are an extra. :confused:

Anyone have a recent "sail away" price list?

[frank durant]

Ebb...they don,t care much about advertising....two brothers 'Wade and Forest( Dow not Gump)' have been doing these for years,don't want 'high production' and stress AND are booked WAY ahead.There is nothing on the new market even close in looks,design,quality/price.As you can imagine in our present boat market,the interior is rather basic.It does have cushions,4 ports,opening hatch,small galley erea,porta potty,main,jib etc.A built-in OB well is an option(bracket std)as is a Yanmar (approx $10500 I recall)You can even order a wooden deck/cabin if you want a real ole look.I simply find them beautiful and my old article states they sailed better and faster than a sea sprite 23(Alberg)a Quick step 24(Brewer) and another 24 they were testing .I'd just like to anchor it out back and look at it. $40000 ain't cheap , but there really is nothing out there close....or near as pretty in that $ range. Bill...I have a brochere from a year or two ago , if I find it (I'm sure I still have it) I'll get some option pricing.

[ebb]

Frank,
got on to a John Williams boat builder site who had some pix of a BP 24 hull, but like you say, he was framing it out all in wood. Wonder if Joel White drew up a design for an Ariel style cruising cabin?

How about a race head to head on a windy day with a
Commander?

A brand new Commander built today to the same specs would net out just about the same, about 40 grand, wooden you say?

[frank durant]

Ebb...me thinks a commander would cost more,simply because of wieght. The BP24 is 4000lbs ,boats cost builders 'by the pound' for materials, so I'd be guessin..just guessin..that a new commander would be higher.....unless 'God forbid' Hunter cranked one out.As to a race..me thinks it would be a close one..BP24 a little lighter...ours -a lil more sail erea.

[ebb]

Yer right, a brand new Commander would be worth more. We might want to engineer the scantlings down and separate the rudder from the keel. Use stainless for everything including the rudder post and work in an enclosed head.

Maybe somebody could handicap the race between the BP and the Commander if they didn't think the match was fair. Is Joel White with us?

[frank durant]

I'm afraid both Carl and Joel are debating this right now....else where.Joel designed some very fine yachts and was a great artist ...painted some fine nautical portraits too.

[commanderpete]

How much would these boats cost if they were built today?

The Cape Dory 25D is fairly similar to the Ariel.

When Cape Dory went out of business, they sold the molds to Octavia Marine. They planned to build the "Octavia 25" and sell it for $62,000. This was somewhere around 1997.

http://old.cruisingworld.com/ssbk/octavi25.htm

http://www.boatshow.com/Octavia25.html

I don't think they ended up actually building any.

[ebb]

A shame!
Have to be rich to afford a salty retro, keep it in a marina, join a yacht club, have the daysailer put on the hard Sunday afternoon by the staff, and wash it down.

These days the best selling cruising sailboat is the Macgreggor 26, for a paltry $19,999. It's trailerable, has standing headroom, and can go 22mph (doesn't come in knots). It has zero relationship to the CD26, and looks like a gient cell phone.

An Alerion appeals to the sailor in us, the Mac to genetically modified humanoids.

[commanderpete]

Progress my boy, progress

I'm sure these boats will still be treasured 40 years from now.

Or maybe not

[Tim O]

I worked for Roger Macgreggor on the 65' "daysailor" many years ago as the asembly foreman. l learned quite a bit about boat construction and how to do or not do. At night I took a few classes on yacht design from Crealock and other Pacific Seacraft designers. Needless to say Roger did not agree with my suggestions on how to build a better boat. We parted ways but the skills and knowledge gained from working for a production boatbuilder helps with my new Commander projects.

He does fill a niche very well and has made a very nice living. His daughter and son in law taught me to sail and introduced me to racing on their Burns 30 "Skidoo" which was featured in "Woodenboat" #81. When it came time to own another boat affter my Thistle I chose a 40 year old Commander for it lines and solid construction.

Tim

[Mike Goodwin]

I got to sail on one of those Mac 65's for a couple of races , I think the Ariel has more beam , but gawd those 65's hauled ass . Hunter made a long skinny boat like the 65 Mac.

[commanderpete]

This one looks like fun. Sorta Commanderesque

Needs wood

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1455503&slim=quick&

[mbd]

"Schock Harbor 25" (Inches)?? Kinda pricey, but you'll save a lot on yard bills.

[commanderpete]

They really should have a prototype by now.

Don't see a forward hatch. I guess the jib boom prevents that. Tacking is such a chore :rolleyes:

Curious to see how she turns out

[commanderpete]

I'm hoping we see more new daysailors in the 22-28 foot range

No more ugly bubble boats please

Someday my Friendship 40 will come in. Until then.....

[Al Lorman]

The first Harbor 25 is supposed to be launched this spring. And the price is already up to about 65K, once they figured out the cost to actually build them, plus about 10K in "options".

Al

[ebb]

That overhead view in #24 shows what could be a rear deck, it's under that deck I'd have the saildrive. Less noise, more access. Like the Ariel it would make a lot more room below, right where you need it. I'd put the galley back at the companion way too.

No front hatch seems strange. Can you be comfortable in a boat without one? With some modification, a hatch with high and slanted coamings might be designed that would have the lid slide without lifting up on the front of the cabin. More headroom below. And air.

[commanderpete]

Some more progress on the Schock Harbor 25. Does have a forward hatch. Going to have a mast hinge too.

Bow pulpit is optional

http://www.santanasailboats.com/schockwaves.htm

http://www.santanasailboats.com/boats/Harbor25/harbor25deckplugs.htm

This picture shows the plug being pulled out of the mold. They haven't actually laid up hull # 1 yet

[commanderpete]

In other news, they are going to build an Alerion Express 33. No pictures yet

You can see videos of the A28 and A38 here

http://www.alerionexpress.net/id78.html

This is the A38

My name is Elmer Fudd. I own a mansion and a yacht

[commanderpete]

In other news, the trend toward "euro styling" is still going strong

Wauquiez 47

[ebb]

The cockpit really does look comfortable - and safe.
Has any one mentioned the saildrive under the bridge deck? Out of the way of the rudder fer sure. Getting some line caught under there would not be good. Couldn't the keel be extended to close the space?

[epiphany]

In other news, the trend toward "euro styling" is still going strong

Wauquiez 47

Blech! :confused: That bote has a big blister - on deck, no less!

Of course, you'd be a shoe-in for the "Ugliest Boat" prize at the local regatta...

This thing looks like it was designed by Sea Ray. I'm gonna have nightmares about this, gee, thx Pete...

:D

[ebb]

Inside the pilot house is not so bad.
Looks like an executive airport lounge,
maybe from a 007 movie.

[commanderpete]

Yes, very nice inside.

I'm not so sure you can see where you're going if you drive the boat.

This one should give Kurt some PTSD

A Buckler ketch

[frank durant]

;) That picture was surely taken on the Galapagos Islands....one Darwin missed...obviously a never before seen,endangered species........or is it an alien ship???? Clarify please

[iceman]

Not to offend the owner
let alone the designer/builder

Im usually pretty open minded

:eek:

[ebb]

keep this up, buddy, you're going to get the bill
for me falling on the floor.
Too many times, too.
From now on when I see your byline
I'm putting a helmet on!

I really think that ole girl would be better in leather.
Somebody must have loved her.

I reaaly like the wheels attached to the bilge keels.
Only the english would come up with a true amphibius cruiser.
That ther cord makes it look real secure, imagine sailing right
up the ramp to your Vanquard.

NO problem running aground either...

[frank durant]

I just figured it out !!! It appeared on the 3rd episode of the original 'star trek' back in 64.....space "pirates" from the planet zunaber were robbing and pillaging with it. Dam near took over the "Enterprise"...but only because Kirk and Bones couldn't respond due to uncontrollable laughter. You remember....way back when Capt.Kirk still had his own hair.

[frank durant]

All joking aside...the TRULY scary fact is that upon it's completion...someone stood back and looked at it with a sence of pride and thought " I built that"

[iceman]

He stood back and said
God What have I done :eek:

[ebb]

"Nature is, above all, profligate...Extravagance! Nature will try anything once. This is what the sign of the insects says. No form is too gruesome. no behavior too grotesque. If you're dealing with organic compounds, then let them combine. If it works, if it quickens, set it clacking in the grass: there's always room for one more; you ain't so handsome yourself."

Let it combine: Part A with Part B.
And if it quickens set it out on the estuary.

[Mike Goodwin]

I don't think I could draw a boat that ugly if I tried .
The best thing about it , is once you are aboard , you can't see it , thank the diety of your choice ( I prefer Odin )

[commanderpete]

Another fine example is the Essex 26.

Sleeps 6

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi-bin/saildata/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=3297&mh=1#

[epiphany]

I dunno, Pete. You coulda stopped with that Waquiez. It still looks like a Sea Ray ran up the sugar-scoop stern of a Beneteau at speed, finally came to a stop midships, so they just glassed it in... :D

The Buccaneer pays homage to her ancestry, at least, with that little clipper bow. ;) Being a bilge-keeler, I'd guess it's English, and so those large deadlights would help heat the cabin on a blustery day on the flats, while you waited for the tide to float you. I bet underway, with her cockpit that far forward, she's a *wet* ride, though... :)

I'll definitely take a pass on the Essex. :D

Where do you find these amazing examples of, ah, um, whatever it is that they are??? :D lol

[commanderpete]

I don't know who sends these threads off track :confused: :confused: :o :o :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We've got to get rid of that bad taste

[commanderpete]

Weird

Mast is actually raked back a bit

[mbd]

Hmmm, very nice looking boat thar. But I thought it was supposed to have a snazzy new sea hood (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3071&stc=1) ???

[commanderpete]

Stay tuned. All varnished and ready. I've been planning to install the hood each weekend for a month now.

I get distracted

[frank durant]

Nice to see a graceful vessel posted again.I'm still in shock after looking at the previous posts....kinda like that feeling ya get after seeing a bad traffic accident!

[ebb]

www.ensignspars.com
A boatbuilder named Zeke Durica down in Dunedin FL
is building the 23' Ensign new. With a fiberglass rudder!
The web site is current.
We can hope that he is flourishing and that fleets are appearing
all over the country!

In 2001, in modern dollars, it cost $27,900 for a sailaway.
$4000 plus options for a float-on trailer.

[Bill]

Getting back to the current day sailor craze [CrossCurrent 33]:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/06/1016/

[ebb]

Sointenly the most interesting thang about this daysailor
is the elefant thong they have for a thiller. And given the
extra wide and very empty footwell, it'll probably take
seven good men to steer with the thang.

[bill@ariel231]

I saw the cross current 33 during the sail for hope (my ride was a frers 40) .. CC33 is fast boat in the bay... it looked really, really wet on the short off-shore leg.

[Bill]

Not really a "day sailor," but sure is interesting . . .

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/06/1018/

[Wildcat]

http://www.martin-raget.com/temp/YC9H7133.jpg

my friends, that's a reasonably large craft pictured above. is that some sort of computer i see there? :p

[commanderpete]

Many computers

Press F5 to tack, F8 to jibe

Press Esc and the stewardess brings you another Mojito

very civilized

[ebb]

Strange craft, isn't it? (#55) They remembered to put some sofas for passengers on deck but how do you get below? Open that square hatch and look down into cold black water, like a nautical wormhole. Of course, there isn't anything below! Not even a beer. My question would be: why does a boat like this exist? Waste of teak, unless that deck is also a plastic imatation, which is unlikely, because the design had to have something authentic aboard. A lonely spooky sailboat, like a modern 'Flying Dutchman.'

Apropos the 'flexible' catamaran (#54) that looks inspired by an aracnid, there is a designer on the net (sorry I don't know how to lift the photos) who is making bulbous sided sailboats out of half tubes (bananasplit) of hypalon. They don't look half bad either.

"Hello, Coast Guard? Yeah, 10-4 and all that...say, Ah got a leak, and Ah can't get the glue to stick...Yeah, ohh, ummmm, so it's not life threatening, huh?..."

I can understand larger enforcement and emergency craft made of flexible rubber fabric, they go home and park regularly. I have to ask what if you take one in the tube? You know, that spray can of foam just won't do the job.

Hypalon airboats can last a decade, but then what? Some miracle coating in a can? Give me good old plastic every time! (#48):D

[c_amos]

This thread is becoming more and more disturbing with every post... :cool:

[frank durant]

What ever happened to boats with a 'soul' ??

[Wildcat]

here ya go. i give you: Rowdy.

http://newyork40rowdy.com/docksidetouchup.jpg

[frank durant]

now that's a daysailor!!!

[MRH]

I had originally decided to replace my Commander with a Bridges Point 24' before giving in to the cruising comforts offered by the Nonsuch 26'. The Bridges Point is now approx. $65,000 with a diesel, $55,000. with an outboard well.

Wade Dow is a straighforward guy who builds a beautiful boat. I would not hesitate to work with him if my plans included a "new" Commander.

Mike Hoff

Commander #131
Francine

[commanderpete]

I wish I could find a decent picture of the Bridges Point. I'm sure its a beauty.

Some pictures of the Schock Harbor 25 here

http://www.santanasailboats.com/boats/harbor25/harbor25photos.htm

BP24

[MRH]

Here are a few pictures of a Bridges Point 24 on its mooring in Brooklin, Maine, the first Bridges Point 24 in Wade and Forest Dow's boat yard, and the "factory" where they build these beauties by hand, one at a time.

If you're looking for a Christmas present for that special someone (or yourself) and aren't ready to spring for a Bridges Point 24, I would recommend the book, "Joel White: Boatbuilder/Designer/Sailor" by Bill Mayher, Maynard Bray and the great photographer, Benjamin Mendlowitz which includes a few pages on the Bridges Point 24, including more photos, and drawings. There is a terrific photo of Joel White's personal Bridges Point 24 which he had built with the Herreshoff style cabin. I think the book is available on Amazon.com for $39.95. It will get you through the winter.

[ebb]

Wade Dow builder of the Bridges Point 24 is quoted as saying, 'These boats really sell themselves.' When you go to that site it obvious that they HAVE to sell themselves because all they got there is a tiny coagulation of a few faded shots of the boat. And they can't be bopped to be made larger - am I the only one put off by this? - maybe that's the intent. Maybe it's the internet. Sorry for the rant.

Get the feeling those guys don't want to be discovered because they'll have to change their downeast work ethic. Like instead of two boats a year they'd have to pump out three.

Don't understand this reverse pride of presentation. It's maddening and looks inept. Not even a sailplan, or any lines. And that page has remained unchanged for awhile, since I've wondered about this Joel White sloop too! Everybody's probably out shoveling snow.:rolleyes:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
Thanks for the shots, Mike, she's very pretty!

That one of her on the water begs for a comparison with the Commander. Wonder if anyone had the spare change to spend on a new daysailer if they would consider picking up a Commander (for next to nothing) and put half of the money into a 100% renovation of the Alberg? Refurbish two at the same time?! THAT would be something!!!

[mbd]

All I have to say is: "hubba hubba!" :D

[MRH]

Brooklin, Maine is one of the most beautiful harbors on the Maine coast, but it’s like a different country up there. In 2005, the town rejected a utility application to install cable TV and high speed Internet because they wanted to leave things just the way they are and dissuade outsiders from gentrifying the town.

Wade Dow "fishes" (lobsters) in the summer and builds a boat or two in the winter. He lives at his own pace. Whether outsiders are put-off by Wade's lifestyle or find it enviable, the Bridges Point 24 is a reflection of who he is and where he lives.

Wade is one of only a handful of builders left who can apparently survive building a top quality 24' sloop one at a time for $55,000 - $65,000. If you are an aficionado, you pay your deposit and Wade tells you exactly where you stand on the waiting list - which is short right now given the market for 24’ sloops @ $65,000.00. What you pay for is a classic design, glass, resin, wood, and expert building skill at a reasonable cost. What don't get is a flashy website and instant gratification via email – a fair trade for a builder who answers his own phone and keeps his promises.

Mike Hoff
Newton, Massachusetts
Commander #131, “Francine”

[MRH]

Here's an interesting comparison of the Commander to the BP 24 and 2 other daysailers.

Commander BP 24 Nonsuch 26 Alerion 28
LOA 25'6" 24"0" 26' 28'3"
LWL 18'5" 18'8" 24'5" 22'10"
Beam 8'0" 7'9" 10'6" 8'2"
Draft 3'7" 3'5" 4'6" 4'6"
Displacem't 5100 3944 8500 lbs. 4400 lbs.
Ballast 2500 2100 2750 lbs. 2000 lbs.
Sail Area 310 278 420 352
PHRF 261 243 219 168

MRH

[ebb]

Hey Mike,
really sorry! I lived for decades in a little town just north of San Francisco that 'fought to save itself.' There even was a book written about it. Sadly, it was 'discovered' and big money moved in with a vengence BECAUSE it wasn't gentrified! We fought sewering and state agencies, but couldn't fight the real estate mongols. Except on the funky face of it, they won. So here's to Brooklin. And throw another log in the stove.

Guess Joel lived down the street from Wade's shop...!

Joel White is the Nutshell Pram and Sakkonet 23, both talked about on these pages.

[frank durant]

I've LONG admired the BP24. They sail EXTREMELY well...in a 4 boat comparison years back in SBJ..they outsailed a seasprite 23 (Alberg) and all others in the comparison. They are beautiful boats and VERY well made. I personally love the fact it is a small shop...not huge production run...and that they are 'hands on'. Joel White was a great designer and an artist. His life evolved around water and boats. He died relatively young (60ish by memory) just a few years back. I can dig up their performance specs from the old review...yep I'm a pac-rat. But I clearly remember they out pointed all others and were considerably faster on all points of sail but perticularly pointing and broad reaching. I posted about these early on in this thread. Real pretty boats !!!!!

[commanderpete]

Good pics Mike

Interesting how tiny the sailboat industry really is

New cruising/racing sailboats sold in the USA in 2000.
(The most recent survey available)

20 to 29 feet in length 1,926
30 to 35 feet 921
36 to 40 feet 671
41 to 45 feet 370
46 to 60 feet 234

Source: North American Sailing Industry Study

[ebb]

C'pete,
That's a very smooth curve there, wouldn't you say, if you charted it?
I'd guess the money follows a very similar path? A little steeper!
I wonder if age of owner does too?
Social Status....?:rolleyes:

[commanderpete]

A little more data here

http://www.sailingsource.com/scuttlebutt/523.html

Total revenue for the industry was $589 million. Of that, $267 million came from sales of boats in the 41-59 foot range

That's why you don't see big glossy ads for pretty little daysailers

[frank durant]

Mike H...have you been on a BP 24?? I was wondering if they have a bridgedeck?? I've never seen a cockpit shot.

[MRH]

Frank:

I've never sailed a BP 24. I put a deposit down believing that it would sail as good as it looks. I also consider Joel White up there with Carl Alberg.

Having never sailed a BP 24, I don't know if it has a bridge deck. The Joel White book I referred to earlier has photos of the BP 24 which didn't help, but there is a line drawing which shows no bridge deck in the cockpit.

Mike Hoff

[ebb]

Mike,
Mail the Bridges Point Yard a point-and-shoot throwaway camera
with a return postage paid insulated envelope.

[frank durant]

Thanks Mike..have a GREAT Xmas..you too Ebb

[commanderpete]

Coming soon.... the Sabre "Spirit"

36'8" LOA

http://www.sabreyachts.com/sailing_yachts/sabre-spirit/index.php

[commanderpete]

Custom Buzzards Bay 25

33' LOA

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?boat_id=441568&checked_boats=441568&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=8264&url=

[frank durant]

That 'buzzards bay' is a beauty!! I'll bet it too is a small fortune.

[frank durant]

While discussing the Bridges Point 24 back a few posts (#70),I mentioned that I remembered a comparison review in an old 'small boat journal'.Well...what does a boat nut do with extra 'down time' over Xmas.....look at old magazines!! So...here from 1987 (kinda embarassing)are the sailing speed specs. It also outsailed a SeaSprite 23(Alberg) in the review but they didn't post the 23's specs? It also had the heaviest hull layup schedule.

[frank durant]

Hull lay up back then.May have changed now.Note ..this is before they had fiberglass cabin/decks.

[Wildcat]

http://www.maxidolphin.it/img/n95b.jpg

[joe]

someone would give me one of those !! Do you know how many Ariels and Commanders I could buy with the proceeds of THAT sale :D

[MRH]

Can someone please explain the benefits of a boat designed without a stern? Maybe the answer is obvious to a marine architect, but how can such a boat keep the water out and the people in?

MRH

[ebb]

Sweeping the boat's easy, kicking the cans out.
You don't see any wives or kids or dogs on these boats either, do you?
Things get lost on these boats...

[commanderpete]

Drawing of the Alerion Express 33 and picture of the Alerion Express 38.

Bob Perry seemed to like the AE38

http://www.sailingmagazine.net/perry_AlerionExpress38a.html

"People will buy this boat because it is beautiful. Overall this boat has a look very reminiscent of a Carl Alberg design."

[commanderpete]

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[commanderpete]

Snug Harbor Pintail 25'

$60,000

[Bill]

Here is the story on that strange craft posted back at #54:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/19/BAGE7NLI001.DTL

Local TV had film of it zipping around the Bay.

[Bill]

Rhode Island based CrossCurrent Marine announce the arrival in San Diego of its thirty-three foot modern luxury daysailer built by Maxi Dolpin. Successfully introduced in Europe over the past two years and now available in North America, the CrossCurrent 33 harnesses state-of-the-art materials, world-class Italian production, and the first Hall Spars carbon/honeycomb EZV Boom. She is filled with clever and unique features -- easy sail handling, stunning looks, and spirited performance. For more information, contact Jeff Brown of JK3 Nautical Enterprises at 619.224.6200. To view footage from a race on Narragansett Bay, go to http://www.crosscurrentmarine.com/yachts.html

[Wildcat]

readers of this thread will want to check out www.superyachtsociety.com for a belly laff or two. in doing so, don't miss Ghost (http://bnp.bucnet.net/bnpx/pxout/set143664/P0000714914T.JPG). Click the "Finalist" link, then "Sail 36 M+" and then scroll down.

Ghost makes the venerable Maxi Dolphin look positively sardine -like

[ebb]

Why would anyone have thumbnails on a web site that enlarge only to business card sized images? Am I missing something?

Can't only be irritating to me, is it?
I know the rich need their privacy but this is rediculous!;)

[Wildcat]

the pic of those two gents there in the "cockpit" is an absolute hoot. are those leather couches? the mates seem to disdain them. "couches? COUCHES!? we don't need no steekeeng COUCHES! :D

[commanderpete]

The boat could use some La-Z-Boy recliners. I didn't see any cupholders either.

If you're shopping for a boat, Jimmy Buffett is selling his Hinckley Daysailer (Hull #2). Has a bowthruster

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1655624&checked_boats=1655624&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75710&url=

[ebb]

A boat like that needs a deck mounted bow thruster
....to remind us of the sultry days of summer....:D

[Wildcat]

Saw this the other day. what's Jimmy's boat doing up in New Yack? seems awfully far afield from A1A & Margaritaville &c.

[mbd]

My god is that a pretty boat! Sure wish I were a trust fund baby!

[commanderpete]

Interesting to note what prominent sailboat designers chose for their personal boat.

Capt. Nat Herreshoff designed for himself the 26' "Alerion III"

When Capt. Nat was in his seventies and living in Florida, he sailed a 30' K/CB "Pleasure"

Joel White sailed a Bridges Point 24 named "Ellisha" after his grandaughter

Phil Rhodes sailed a wooden 25 footer named "Nixie"

Carl Alberg sailed a 26' Pearson Commander named after his wife "Alma"

Bob Perry sails a 26' Cirrus called "Perrywinkle"


"Pleasure"

[Ed Ekers]

Here is one we can add to the collection............
http://homepage.mac.com/jcboats/catherine.html

[commanderpete]

Hmmmmmmm

Yummy

[commanderpete]

48' Water Witch

http://waterwitchyachts.com/?p=gallery

The 7' beam leaves her a bit cramped for my tastes

[commanderpete]

I would prefer the 100' "Day Boat" from Spirit Yachts

http://www.bymnews.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=476

[Tim Mertinooke]

I wonder how fast you could get that beauty to go on a beam reach in 20 knots of wind with full canvas flying. Hold on tight...

[Lucky Dawg]

The Spirit - 100 Superyacht ( http://www.spirityachts.com/sy-spirit-100.htm
LOA 100'0" 30.6m
LWL 70'7" 21.6m
Beam 19'0" 5.8m
Draft 11'5 3.5m
Displ. 42 tonnes
Ballast Ratio 35%
Sail Area 4566 sq ft. 427sq.m.
__________________________

Hull speed 11.3
Sail Area/disp. 38.08
disp/LWL 106
Length Water Line/Beam 3.724
Motion Comfort 32.08


("My calculations" = http://image-ination.com/sailcalcv1.html )

Lucky Dawg was "speeding" along at 6-6.5 all day today 100% jib and a reefed main in a steady 17kts. Good enough for me.:)

[Wildcat]

here you go, pete. saw this the other day and thought of you. seems like your cuppa tea

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailimg/m/8186/Main_view.jpg

[commanderpete]

Nice!

That would be considered a daysailer, back in the old days

Let's see...what else do we have

Herreshoff 12 1/2

[commanderpete]

My friend's Beetle Cat

[commanderpete]

And a Melonseed Skiff

[Howard]

This makes the Holder 14 in my garage seem -- well, inexpensive.

[Tim Mertinooke]

This makes the Holder 14 in my garage seem -- well, inexpensive.

My parents bought my brother and I a Hobie Holder 14' in 1989 and we still use it to this day. Fun boat!

[Howard]

My parents bought my brother and I a Hobie Holder 14' in 1989 and we still use it to this day. Fun boat!

They are great little boats. Forgiving for the kids and just fast enough. Plus, the cockpit is huge and comfy with the benches and backrests compared to a performance dinghy. All in all, a great beach cruiser for families.

[Wildcat]

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/210%20dock.jpg

lovely eh?

[commanderpete]

Who could get tired of looking at pretty boats?

Here's a famous daysailer--the Wianno Sr. "Victura"

[Tim Mertinooke]

In order to buy the Fuji we needed to sell the Ariel and the Typhoon. I am keeping my eye out for a cheap Ty to tear apart and make a great daysailor. There were two designs for the Ty daysailor and one weekender that Cape Dory made. I would copy the open daysailor model which they only made a handful of. The Ty daysailors are hard to come by as they are very popular and usually well-maintained which brings a premium. I have seen over the past few years many neglected Weekender Ty's out there with soft and compressed decks with a solid hull that people are looking to unload for little to no money. I would cut the deck and cabin off forward of the cockpit and continue the cockpit seats all the way to the front leaving a small watertight compartment to store sails, gear, cooler, etc. A mahogany coaming would be wrapped around the entire cockpit. The rig would have a gaff-rigged mainsail on a varnished wooden mast, and the jib would be a little thing on a wooden boom. And of course an integrated cupholder here and there. It's fun to dream!

Here are some pictures of the rare open daysailor I would try to copy.

http://www.ladypauline.com/boardpic2.jpg

http://www.capedory.org/specs/TY-opendaysailer-stern1.jpg

http://www.ladypauline.com/boardpic1.jpg

[Tony G]

Tim

That's a great idea, cup holders and such. One cannot own just one boat! It's nearly unpatriotic. So a couple of years back I bought an Ensign just for that purpose. Well, a reborn daysailor and to harvest all of the teak and mahogany from the cockpit. That was also the reason to build the vacuum bagging system. Lots of smooth curves incase the cup holders get used too much. We should talk.

[commanderpete]

Sounds like an excellent project, and an excuse to post some more pictures

An Ensign

[commanderpete]

Typhoon (I think)

[commanderpete]

Not sure about this baby

Looks like an Ariel Jr.

[commanderpete]

A Dutch beauty---Ranger 9.9

http://www.ranger99.nl/

[wrevans]

Well this is just one of my favorite topics. So go get a cup of coffee and get comfortable.

I agree that there is definitely a big daysailor craze. And there is a bunch of eye candy for the poor window shoppers. I love this Spirit Yachts 46.

http://www.spirityachts.com/images/amDSC_3231_L.gif

Here is Ginger, a Robert Stephens, "Fast Daysailor"

http://www.brooklinboatyard.com/design/images/ginger_lg.jpg

The other trend that I like, even though it is also way too expensive, is the new construction of classic old boats.


This is from Ames’ Point Boatworks (http://www.amespointboatworks.com/site/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=3) which is building a new version of the classic Camden Knockabout.

The Camden Knockabout is one our recent projects. The hull design will remain true to the original lines of the Camden Class Sloop, drawn by B.B. Crowninshield in 1915. The underbody, rig, and cockpit have been modernized by the experienced yacht designers at Brooklin Boatyard located in Brooklin Maine. Having proven their abilities to produce beautiful, fast, functional Spirit of Traditional boats in the past, we are thrilled to be producing another modern classic day sailor of their drawing.

The Camden Knockabout will be cold-molded with veneers, epoxy resin, and sheathed in fiberglass. The cockpit has been re-drawn so that it self-bails, a feature that many light day sailors of that era lacked. An inboard diesel with sail-drive will supply additional push when the breeze isn't cooperating. A spade keel, carbon fiber mast and rudder will help drive this elegant day sailor around the buoys or up the coast at the front of the fleet.

The Camden Knockabout will be finished in yacht style with Teak and Mahogany accents, coamings, and cabin top. She will certainly turn heads on the water, and at any dock she occupies. With LOA 28' 3", a displacement of 3743#, and SA/D of 25 this boat will be a joy sail on a leisurely afternoon, and a lively competitor in any race.

http://www.amespointboatworks.com/1_PICTURES/camden/redone/camden12.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wre1962/R_4ZlYGyRQI/AAAAAAAADng/w3kuWJs4CPE/s800/Camden%20Class%20Sail%20Plan.jpg

I hear that the asking price is in the 195k range.

I looks like someone is also trying to get the beautiful Luders L-16 (http://www.barxalot.com/L16Project/index.html) back into production with Morris Yachts as the builder. I think that this would make a fabulous daysailor and with a projected cost of about 60k they may just make it. It seems unfortunate that the "poor" persons daysailor starts at 60k.

http://www.l16.org/images/lvint.jpg

I have wanted a classic daysailer for as long as I can remember. I sail without and engine so I appreciate thier sailing abilities and I live in San Juan Islands so there are bunches of places to go with day or two of sailing.

Since I couldn't find an affordable classic daysailer I decided to have one built. Well modified actually. I picked up and old Shields class one design.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wre1962/RsKfNm5Z98I/AAAAAAAAALs/MZscxxM65CM/s800/IMG_5336_DXO.jpg

And designed a modified concept to create my own daysailor / knockabout sloop.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/wre1962/R-HnZOoq3RI/AAAAAAAADJ0/s3fMOhecpCw/s800/Bolero%20Mockup%20-%20M%20-%20Blue%20with%20White_1024.jpg

Here is a picture of where she is now in the construction process.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/wre1962/SAThf2C12xI/AAAAAAAADpA/yyYbev8SjeQ/s800/2008-03-29%20-%20Bolero%20-%2004.jpg

Tim Lackey who created this Triton Daysailer, is meticulously performing this restoration / conversion.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/wre1962/R2GtWjMoekI/AAAAAAAABlc/Ico22sIndj8/s800/Tim%20Lackey%27s%20Triton%20Daysailor.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wre1962/Rts9HZ1dJxI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/apx_-QdcLgU/s800/Triton%20Daysailer%20-%20A.jpg

Cheers, Bill

[bill@ariel231]

She is going to be a beauty. Did you decide on where the head will be located?

[wrevans]

She is going to be a beauty. Did you decide on where the head will be located?

I tossed the permanent head option. Tim & I just couldn't find a way to squeeze it into the cabin in a way that maintained the quality of the space I am looking for. My wife and I going to use a more "portable" option from the camping world. You can read more than you wanted to know about our choice here (http://knockaboutsloops.blogspot.com/2008/04/when-st-hits-fan.html) (I just couldn't go into details about this topic in this thread about beautiful boats).

[commanderpete]

Bolero is looking great. Work of art.

Wally is building a new 36' daysailer, sure to appeal to those poor slobs who can't afford a proper yacht.

http://www.wally.com/wallynano/

It features electric propulsion and an optional 2 head layout.

My boat has 3 heads, if you include the cockpit drains

[ebb]

Remember once on a unisex daysailor when asking about the head:
"That's what the backstay is for!":rolleyes:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________



BUT ONCE AGAIN
this is another bodacious and unique thread, with great photos running from gruesome to the absolutely awesome.

Found only on the Pearson Ariel Association Forums.
The Daysailor Craze, comes up first on google
and is one of a kind on this site
or any other internet site for that matter!

[Tim Mertinooke]

It only takes once to learn that the forestay is not the head...;)

[commanderpete]

We used to call that a "bow spritz"

[ebb]

Bill's (wrevans) post on uri-pouches (when you go the 'Here' page on his site) seems to be a worthy one for a separate thread. He includes other interesting user comments on the TJ urinal pouch. It seems a Mark II model with a ziplock top seal would be an improvement.
Available from the local autoparts store.
They are priced right ($2.70 each) but too expensive for single use disposal. So we'd need another container probably to store the pouch for the next urgency. Which if you drink liquids a lot, you'll need it a lot.
I'm going to get some for the truck. Seem to be doing more and more freeway traveling these days and fastfood comfort stations are a matter of luck and seem harder to find. Pulled off by the side of the road on the leeward side of the vehicle like we used to just isn't done anymore - might even be considered littering: $270 fine in this area.

The briefcase porto potti seems like a great idea too. Couldn't get the site to work though. Multiuse seems out of the question for this one, I'd need to do personal research on the matter. Dedicate space for a proper head is many cubic feet of seldom used volume on an A/C or a knockabout daysailor. The briefcase model seems to be a step up up from the 5 gallon bucket and a white plastic bag!

The gelling concept to control our liquidity is a great idea. That it is all biodegradable, I'm not so sure.... Not sure with the pathogens involved that disposal is all that easy and convenient or ethical. And I wonder about any plastic membranes being degradable also...?

Is there still an abiding interest in the head question viz the A/C? We kicked it around a couple times in the past.... Maybe we should rethread it.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________



Tellya one thing though. I've had to go below while getting blown and thrown around the buoys on a Sunday promenade
and it's nigh impossible to aim properly into the portopotti and hold on with both hands and elbows.
That little TJ baggie sure would make the episode a snap and certainly more salubrious.

[Sean O'Sullivan]

Nice, going potty in bags. Here's the solution your looking for, its hands free. That way you can stay busy handling the boat.

[ebb]

Need some sanity!

Haven't really 'studied' the retro craze that began in the mid 90s. There must have been a few gaff cutters built in fiberglass with fin keels and fine teak.

But go to

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Articles/Maid-2index.html
Google it: The Picture Perfect Pocket Cruiser.

where indeed there are a few pics of 'The perfect Pocket Cruiser' and some fine words about the reinvention of a John (son of Billy) Atkins 20' wooden day sailor (spelt 'cruiser' in British) with a similar waterline to the Ariel/Commanders. There's no plastic in this boat except maybe the sails and ropes, and the jackets the two guys in the cockpit are wearing in the cover shot.

John Atkin drew some of the finest small boats ever conceived. Like Halsey Herreschoff - they designed small cruisers (nee day-sailor) with three dimensional souls.

This is my retro candidate for the romance of small sail from the good ole days of beautifully designed and comfortable wooden sailboats.

[Wildcat]

http://goodoldboat.com/images/advertisements/RobertGibbs_lg.jpg

saw this over at Good Old Boat and was reminded of you boyeez

[commanderpete]

Pisces 21

http://www.classicboatshop.com/pisces21.html

[commanderpete]

Another from Chuck Paine

The Paine 25

(PDF file)

http://www.chuckpaine.com/pdf/25PAINE25.pdf

[commanderpete]

They scaled up the Alerion Express from 28' to 33' to 38'

Problem is, even the AE38 only has 5' 8" of headroom.

The AE45 should fix that

http://www.alerionexp.com/Alerion-AE45.html

[mbd]

Does it still count as a "daysailor" when they've got TWO double berths in the line drawings?

[Bill]

Does it still count as a "daysailor" when they've got TWO double berths in the line drawings?

In my opinion, a large cockpit cruising sailboat fails to meet the daysailor definition :confused:

[ebb]

google
Building 3DL sails at North Sails in Nevada
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7451642631334471231

[sorry, doesn't come up. But typing in the title on google ought to do it. Can't say it reveals a damn thing but it's fun to look at.]

Take a couple mylar sheets, some aramid and carbon yarns laid down by robots, and some kind of super hot-glue
and you get an expensive one piece laminated sail
done on a pneumatic powered floor that magically shapes itself to the designer's desires.

While the sail development is entirely North Sails
the pneumatic floor which is programmed on a computer (what else?) to curve into custom foils is Sobstad's.
And their suit has stopped production.

Much wringing of hands and happy lawyers.

[commanderpete]

Harumph

You gentlemen will never get to experience "Alerion Sailing" (trademark, copyright, all rights reserved, patent pending)

"Alerion Sailing" enables the discriminating skipper to savor the full flavor of sailing, and still be back in time for a hot shower, good meal and comfortable bed ashore. This is what experienced sailors graduate to.

http://www.alerionexp.com/Sailing.html

With a big enough chartplotter, you don't even need your reading glasses.

[bill@ariel231]

When Alyce and I saw an Alerion 38 at the newport boat show. Alyce made the mistake of asking the designer if the boat could be ordered with a sprit pole for an Asym or without the club boom/trip hazard on the foredeck. The question definitely got under his skin, i guess "Alerion Sailing" doesn't allow for 'round the buoy racing. ;)

[wrevans]

Just a quick follow up with a few pictures of my Shields conversion project now that Tim has finished her.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wre1962/SJB8T0fOggI/AAAAAAAAGCg/5tvelFA-kRA/s800/2008-07-29%20-%20Bolero%20-%2022.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/wre1962/SJB8ezqrOCI/AAAAAAAAGD0/TFHm4lfa9wg/s800/2008-07-29%20-%20Bolero%20-%2032.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wre1962/SJB76OrBuEI/AAAAAAAAF-Y/aTe9GNwJeTM/s800/2008-07-28%20-%20Bolero%20-%2014.jpg

[Rico]

Beautimous...

Excuse me while I regain my composure.

[ebb]

Definitely a knockmeout knockabout!
Like to see her with her dress on!

Who was it that said when asked about standing headroom
'You don't stand up in a cadilac.' Or a RollsRoyce either.
Every gentleman's dayboat has a bit of varnish up top,
a place for the hamper,
and a bit of plumbing at the foot of the mast.

[commanderpete]

Coming in Febuary, the Morris M29

http://www.morrisyachts.com/The-Morris-M29

[Al Lorman]

Morris building a 29' boat? Now, that is a sign of a severely weakening economy.

[Tony G]

Naw. Just the daysailor craze filling out the hand. When you see 29' cruisers being built then you know something's up.;)

[commanderpete]

Should also include the e33

http://www.esailingyachts.com/e33_intro.htm

About $150,000, if you have to ask

[Bill]

http://www.jboats.com/j95/j95intro.htm

J Boats new daysailor . . .

New J/95… Sails in 3' of Water

This elegant 31 foot design offers a new level of sailing joy, and broadens the daysailing and weekending horizons of those living on the many shallow bays of New England, the Cape, Great South Bay, the Jersey Shore and Chesapeake, Low Country of Georgia and the Carolinas, the Intracoastal, Bahamas, Florida Keys, the Gulf Coast, inland lakes of the Mid & South West and estuaries of Northern California and the Pacific Northwest.

Because it’s a J Boat, you know the J/95 will be a great sailing and seaworthy boat in any depth of water. The latest in modern hull design with long waterline is combined with a carbon fiber mast and low VCG (vertical center of gravity) lead keel containing a fully retractable centerboard. The result is an exceptionally fast and stable boat capable of sailing in 3 feet of water. J/95 will outperform existing, deeper-draft keel dayboats of the retro “pretty” genre by a wide margin and in many cases at a fraction of the cost. The J/95 offers the best of both worlds….now you can moor a beautiful yacht off the end of your dock without having to limit how far you can sail in a day.

The J/95 features a comfortable T-shaped cockpit (the same size as the 40 foot J/122) with removable transom locker; wheel steering; a retractable bow sprit in a hidden housing for some downwind fun with masthead asymmetric spinnaker; two berths for the occasional overnight adventure; enclosed marine head; and a 15 hp diesel auxiliary saildrive to get you home if the wind dies. J/95 is unique in that it’s designed to sail well on all points whether in “shoal” mode with board up or in “deep” mode with the board down. When one does run aground (and almost all boats eventually do), the center board will pivot up creating potentially far less damage than what would be expected with a deep keel or vertical dagger board grounding. Not since the introduction of the J/22 in 1983 has such an exciting new keelboat been available to sailors who live near shoal water areas. These areas are simply not reachable with most keelboats, let alone one that looks and performs so beautifully.

J/95 tooling is underway and the debut of hull #1 is scheduled for February 2009.

J/95 will indeed be a better boat for people who love to sail! For more info and to reserve a spring hull slot, please contact your J/Boat dealer today.

[commanderpete]

They now have a J/95 and a J/97, but i really wanted a J/96.

eh

[frank durant]

If you have time to look at page 5, posts 66 to 70, you will see the Bridges Point 24 and its builder Wade Dow mentioned. It 1st caught my eye in a 1986 or 87 test in Small Boat Journal. Simply beautiful with a sweeping sheer and very "Herreshoff" type lines. Well...today,about 22 years later I showed up at the boat yard on the way to Judy's mom's in Nova Scotia. We thought a tour thru Maine on the way would be fun. Simply put....it was a privilage,honour and true pleasure to meet Wade Dow. A finer, more down to earth man could not be found. I hated to leave. He is a 'small town' guy,a lobsterman and runs a small boatyard along with his son on the family's property. I could write multiple pages on that one hour meeting but will shorten it to "a very fine man...a very fine boat". When we showed up he was varnishing the toe rail on a boat in the shop with several BP24's tarped behind. In all...he still cares for 19 of them. The pic is Judy and Wade talking boats in the shed and a 9yr old out front. PS...his varnish job was perfect...no brush marks

[ebb]

wow, what a sheer line!
Loss for words, Go elsewhere for what fits.
It's music! It's jumping. Hear that sax playing a catchy melody.

Think of the moves it takes to build a boat.
Now, that Wade, he know how to dance.

[frank durant]

Ebb....I'd like to buy one just to have it out back to look at :D Everything Mike wrote in post 70 is true...and then some!

[ebb]

Franco,
If I were rich and sane, I'd get on the waiting list and get one!
And I would never say the word 'epoxy' again for the rest of my days.

[frank durant]

Sick of 'bad news stories'...here's a good one. Read mikes #70 post (page 5) ...then this.
Wade's father was a lobsterman.Wade is a lobsterman and still uses his dad's boat that was built in 1941.To fill in the off season's they run the boatyard on the family's 18acres on the coast. They allow the local fishermen to haul out and work on their own boats..do their own engine repairs and maintainance as well as paint etc. There are fewer and fewer places to do this anymore as land is being sold to developers for condo/marinas etc leaving the working fisherman with virtually no place affordable to haul out.I think Wade and his son Forest are probably the last yard.Years ago he feared the fishery dwindling and with yard work slowing the idea of building a boat to fill in the off season came to him.There were several power boat builders already so a sailboat seemed a better idea. Please note...Wade is NOT a sailor. He approached Joel White (EB White's son) another Brooklin resident about his idea. Joel cautioned him about doing 'just another boat' as they would never compete with the mass producers and went about designing a proper little yacht...something nobody was doing.A lil yacht you would be proud to look at on her mooring.About 2 yrs later the plans for the Bridges Point 24 appeared and another couple of years passed before the 1st one was splashed. The GRP hull/wooden prototype cabin design was not yet final and the boat had not yet been fully seatrailed when they took off to the Newport Boat Show with her as they knew Small Boat Journal was doing a test of 4 -24fters and hoped to gain some exposure.They got her in the water and rigged in time. A crew of "professional sailors" went out alone in each of the 4 boats to test sail.They came away impressed dubbing her the "fleetest of the fleet". Now remember Wade is NOT a sailor and in his words "I had been out a couple of times during my life". Then they allowed the factory crews to go out. The "Bridges Point factory crew" consisted of Wade and an older gentleman-long time friend whom was somewhat scared when the boat heeled. Well....again in Wade's words..." we passed them all...all those professional sailors in their red pants and white shoes. It was entirely the boats fault...we sure had nothing to do with it"... "it was one of those special moments in my life I'll never forget". To be honest, meeting Wade was a majic moment for me. You instantly knew you were in the company of a good man. A lobsterman...a boatman.You could tell he had pride in his work and pride in his little community and way of life....a way of life that was getting tougher. I shook hands and thanked him for his time.We continued on to Bar Harbor for the night. While there I bought a magazine on Maine's boats and harbors.In it was a "good news story"...rare these days.An article about a family's love of their little community, a small hamlet of 800 people with a rich history of multiple boat designers,builders and fishermen.It was about their fear for the future of that lifestyle and the way so many boatyards sell out to condo developers as work slows. A fear of "where will the working fisherman go?". A fear of an era ending. As work slows and retirement approachs most of us look to see what we can sell off to support ourselves.We look to "cash out". Not this family.Although not rich financially, they chose to 'gift' their 18acre waterfront property to their little community once they quit.Their only stipulation "don't change it".They wanted to ensure a place for fishermen to work on their boats..to help keep a lifestyle alive.Figuring if you wanted a waterfront condo you should move to "The Hamptons", the lifestyle and community they love is more important to them than the gazzilion $$ they would recieve for their prestine waterfront.That family is Wade and Forest Dow. I came away from meeting him knowing he was a fine,honest and honourable man.After reading the article the next day I knew my instincts were right.

[mbd]

Thanks Frank!

[MRH]

Frank, thanks for recalling my comments on Wade and Forrest Dow and the Bridges Point 24. I'm enjoying my Nonsuch 26 (really a daysailor with amenities - see photos), but still lament selling Commander 131. As for opting off of Wade's waiting line to buy the Nonsuch, the BP 24 will forever be the beauty I let get away. She is pure, Joel White's Mona Lisa.

Mike Hoff
Nonsuch 26 #112
Lake Tashmoo, Martha's Vineyard

P.S. Jake - please post some pictures of Francine!

[ebb]

Changing times Frank - thanks for the good stuff.

Came across a Bridges Point 24 FOR SALE! on Yachtworld.com
Titled: Eric Dow Bridges Point 24. Seems current.

Lead in says that this is the one and only WOODEN BP24 and is the hull that was used to make the mold for all the rest of them. After the mold was taken in 1989 the ship was finished at the the Brooklin yard by said Erik Dow.
Pretty obvious it is a yacht. Asking $47,000. And it is at the Yard now. I recharged the info and request and it came up, so it must be happening.

........Frank.....?

[frank durant]

Eric is a brother that also makes a living working on and around boats. Sadly,the BP 24 is no longer in production.The orders dried up around 3 yrs back.They finished the ones in progress and their 2 men were laid off. I don't think Wade miss's the deadlines,phone calls,demanding customers etc. He "may" build one again....only if there was no deadline so he could work on it at his own pace.They are finding there is enough work for the 2 of them keeping things going at the yard and I think they both enjoy the lack of pressure. If I remember correctly, 81 were built.

[Rico]

I saw one of these boats as I was headed north from San Diego... The first was in a sad state, but still caught my eye. I saw a second during my trip to the bay... I saw this one in a shipyard getting a bottom job... I could not stop the drool.

- It has been following me since... (Literally & figuratively). - It (and it's crew) took a mooring next to me and the Mephisto Cat while at Angel island a few weeks back... I took a few pictures. I've been looking at them since.

Would this qualify as a BIG Commander? - The cockpit is about the same size... Has a tiller!

Lovely lines - From the look, it could be from the book of Alberg... (it is not an Alberg design). It really looks like a big commander...

Anyone familiar with these boats? (Hint: They are the same vintage as our Commanders /Ariels)

Note the reverse color scheme:
- Big boat: Off-white hull with Gray trim.
- Mephisto Cat 26: Gray hull with off-white trim.
Coincidence?

It is a Kettenburg 41. Thirty-some made from '66 to '70 or somewhere in there. Stout & overbuilt fiberglass hulls like our Pearsons. I believe it was the only fiberglass-hulled model from this traditional wooden yacht builder.

[frank durant]

Very pretty. Love the overhangs.

[ebb]

Have to add this baby to our archives.....

Brit. redesign of a 60s hull. Full cutaway keel, keel hung rudder, encapsulated ballast, 10hp diesel, FAST.
She's a beaut
Almost a Joel White sheer.
A mere $60,000.

One crazy thing is that everybody seems to sit INSIDE the cockpit, no deckbutts.
Is that a TOP OF THE BOOM VANG???


http://rustleryachts.co.uk/rustler/r24.htm

[Frenna]

Been thinking about tweaks to the Commander's aesthetics so I have something to fix on C231 besides paint and through hulls. It does not take much to get that expensive Alerion Express look. Especially when working in the "photoshop boatyard". Sorry I cannot remember which Commander I used for the base image, somebody set me straight please.

For the record, the total of changes made are exactly three: make ports oval, extend grab rail on cabin, add teak eyebrow trim above ports. That is it. Of course it helps that the boat was so well done to start with.

Sure the Alerion might be the "prettiest girl at the dance", my question is, "does she have a sister"?

[Lucky Dawg]

Dude! That's the Dawg! :)

[ebb]

Absolutely gorgeous!
That jaguar-green hull tre-chic
The oval ports seem to give the Commander a smile.
And the bit of trim the elegance of a foxy lady's penciled eyebrows.

Maybe, maybe if she had been presented like this
there might have been 6091 Commanders made!
How about a REPRISE?
She looks like a million dollars!
If produced again she would become big sister to the New Ensign ($30.000. www.ensignspars.com)


I hope she kept the name CHEBEAQUE.
Which for this non-local
has a commanding tone
and does sound like a great name for a boat.

[Frenna]

Glad you like the revised design. Now to do it. I love the Commanders hull and shear, and the large cockpit makes it a great family and friends daysailor (daysailER)? My only real gripes are the ports, short grab rail, and the cabin top roof angles seem a bit off, but the eyebrow fixes that. I might add that the extreme rake at the front end of the coaming boards seems like it could be improved too. A flaw that the Alerion seems to have adopted.

The ports are the biggest issue. To my eye they are too thin, too low, and not attractively shaped. Looks like the back door on an armored car.

So, if/when I do get around to the mod, I seem to recall that C231's port frames were in decent shape. If anyone wants to get in the que for them, I would be willing let them go for the cost of shipping to someone who will make good use of them. Note, however, that I do not even own the boat yet, so this is in the late winter/early spring time frame.

[ebb]

Rather like makeup
the Commander's sheer is an illusion.:D
__________________________________________________ ___

I'll add a spin to C'Pete's next post here - so as not to bump him off.
Yes finding TRUE elliptical ports seems impossible. Bomar has a bunch but they all seem to have tight corners, squinty.

GGSchmitt & Sons have a nice, not quite as squinty, opening port in stainless and smoked acrylic* (4 1/2 X 14 1/2) for $163. It's still a modern look.
I'd make black cardboard cutouts of the shape, tack it to the cabin, and stand back.

Looking at the portlights in the Express Commander above again, they are a modern pattern, being somewhat sharp cornered. But they don't look bad at all, do they? Actually they look custom to the boat! Maybe they're the Schmitts! They give the Commander an even more timeless look.

TaylorMadeSystems has Sea Vue Portlights in aluminum that are very rounded with nice proportions - but still elliptical. Interesting numbers: Portlight opening: 3 3/4" X 12 3/4" --- Hole cut-out: 6 3/4" X 15 3/4" --- OD of finishing ring: 7 3/4" X 16 1/2"
__________________________________________________ ______________________
*The Schmitt's may be too long: 4 1/2 X 14 1/4 - 5 3/4 X 16 - 7 3/4 X 18.
that is: taking the curve of the cabin into account.

[commanderpete]

Good ideas.

Finding the right shape ports might be the difficult, and expensive, part. Then the fiberglass work to make them fit.

I was also thinking of getting longer handrails. New 4 or 5 loop teak handrails are actually pretty cheap. Problem is, the loops on the original handrails aren't evenly spaced, the new ones all are. You would have to make your own handrails to keep the same spacing and cover the ugly deck underneath the handrail bases.

Eyebrows could be nice. Teak half-round lengths are also pretty cheap. You might want to make and varnish two sets at once. It's the same amount of work. If one set eventually gets ratty looking you can just change them out.

[Frenna]

Since I am planning to refinish the entire exterior, dealing with holes and modifying port locations is an option. That said, I think it may be possible to make the ovals work as an overlap of the existing holes.

I was thinking they would be non-operable, just like the original. I have seen some nice ones that were simply bronze perimeter frames, could be cut from sheet and rounded over on the edges. I bet it could be done with a speed controlled router or milling equipment. It is critical to be able to size and shape them just so. Well proportioned ports should diminish in size moving toward the front of the boat.

I have also noticed that on some of these neo-traditional daysailers, there is no port frame, the glass (or plastic) is recessed slightly, and there is a bead of what looks like teak deck compound flush with the glass. The glass is heavily tinted, so it is not noticeable. I imagine the interior is trimmed with wood, plastic, or metal, but that is not critical.

I must say, that I am really intrigued by your mention of making the eyebrow removable. Come to think of it, it would be really nice if ALL the exterior wood were made to be easily removable so that it could be taken in to the shop for varnish maintenance during the off season. That would avoid the insane masking and prepping at the dock, the lost sailing time, (good varnish weather is good sailing weather), and generally make it easier to keep things looking good.

The fact that there is not too much wood on these is helpful. Anyone who has ever owned a Cheoy Lee, as I have, knows all about it. Love the wood, hate the wood. That goes tripple for spars.

The grab rails are in the category of stuff that is easy to make as needed in the shop. On the Cheoy Lees I have owned they were triangular in cross section, such that the base was about 1/3 wider than the rail part, which give it a nice solid feel laterally. Seems like the Pearson ones are just milled out of a fairly thin board. Strong enough I imagine, but not as satisfying.

Anyway, I will be thinking about ways to detach some of the teak without having to drill out bungs etc.

[commanderpete]

Ahhhhh...another craftsman here. Anything is possible for you guys.

I was hoping to find some ports with a larger cutout, to make the job easier.

I'm not too unhappy with the existing ports, since they don't leak. But they are cloudy, and I can't seem to polish them clear. Replacing the glass would still be a project, even if I didn't break the frames in the process.

I believe the outside measurements for the ports are 17 3/4" x 5 1/4", with a 7/8" frame.

Here's those links from ebb (Thanks ebb)

http://www.ggschmitt.com/

http://www.taylormarine.com/portlights/seavue.html

We might be getting close

[bill@ariel231]

i'm still a fan of the original portlight frames. Ensign Spars has new frames available in Aluminum (same as the Electra Part):

http://www.ensignspars.com/parts

LARGE ELECTRA PORTHOLE 2PC PER SET/ANODIZED INCLUDES PLEXI
$99.00

that is a whole lot less than it cost me to cast new bronze frames for A-231.;)

[ebb]

Frenna,
I've axed perfectly good restored and powder-coated frames on the Ariel in favor of thru-bolting 3/8" polycarbonate sheet over the holes on the outside. Believe this is virtually bulletproof for the Ariel's large openings. It's certainly NOT Alerion.

I think the current love affair with daysailers harkens back to better economic days of bronze fittings, single malt scotch and white shirts. Don't know that slab-on fixed portlights is the alerion you want. Wouldn't it be more cool to find and fit opening eliptical ports? Certainly more impressive.
But, mounting the plastic on the inside with nicely prepared cutouts could be done. You'd have a ring/bling of carefully placed fastenings around the light on the cabinside.

As I understand Commanders don't have a cabin liner, right? Imco that makes installing upgrade portlights a piece of cake. Except for the curve of the cabin side - but it could probably be dealt with by glassing in a flat mounting surface when prepping and sizing the holes. Can imagine a jig made out of polyethylene sheet (which epoxy doesn't stick to) to mold dead flat mounting frames in the curved plane of the cabinside.. With the finishing rim and some filleting, fairing and paint only a pro will know what you have accomplished.



Can also see more substantail custom rails as easy to do, especially in a shop. The cut-outs can be done with a hardboard pattern and the router after cutting out the openings with the jigsaw,. Could even add a bit of a return to the 'feet' for a sturdier and elegant footprint. Then tablesaw the taper on both sides (or just one side.) Then round over all edges. A small prob with the tapered surfaces, but with a little hand sanding....
Assuming you're going with teak or mahogany and not something like IPE.

Could waste some wood and bandsaw a mild curve into the rail out of wider stock to match the cabin. Obviously because you won't be able to bend a thicker rail. The rail keeps passengers and feet secure - and the sturdier the better.


We had a discussion once here about making the mahogany coamings removable fror ease of maintenance. On the Ariel anyway oversize screws are used to hold the coaming into the curve of the cockpit. It's not much of a bend but the screws have a lot of work to do. They screw into encapsulated mahogany backing 'cleats'. There is a problem with that in that you can't remove the boards too many times without loosing grip in the cleats. And if you move the screws, what do you do with the old monster chamfered holes???

I'd be considering brass or stainless (304) threaded inserts. They'd be PITA to install with a sprung in place coaming..... but could be done.
It would be interesting to try the insert system with the cabin rails. You could hold the rail on with machine screws that screw into overhead cleats inside. Probably get by with 3/4" stuff. I found 1/2" long s.s. inserts that have a thread-lok already applied IN the wood threads. They come in common machine screw thread sizes up to 3/8".
Could be reversed with the threaded inserts put in the base of the rail, and the machine screws screwed up from the inside thru the cabin roof.
Guess this could be called the 'short' method, since the screws would be substantially shorter - and the string of holes easier to line up.
I'd use butyl for bedding - or even old fashioned bedding compound. Probably cove out the bottom of the feet a bit to hold in the bedding around the screw holes in the deck.

Using threaded inserts would allow infinite removal of the rails. Maybe the coamings too. Nice bright shiney stainless screw heads are accepatble on the coamings - why not the top of the rails?

How you gonna do it?:D

[commanderpete]

Before this thread goes too long without a picture, wrap your head around this one

[John]

Did you wrap your head before standing on it for the picture?

[ebb]

One of the mirror images is obviously a wooden version of the other!
Great photo!

But the pulpit of the wooden boat has sustained damage, and there is something ghostly about her large empty ports!:eek:

Brings to mind the mystery of the Mary Celeste supposedly discovered sailing without a soul on board by an identical two-masted brig exactly 137 years ago: Nov 24th 1872.
Her captain's name is Benjamin Briggs, her cargo 1700 barrels of raw alcohol destined for spiking Italian wine.
The Dei Gratia** said to have found the abandoned ship, put two gutsy guys aboard who sailed her 600 miles into Gibraltar for salvage..... but.....

Nicely told video on YouTube
Ghost Ship - Mary Celeste*

Of course NOT intimating that the other Commander in C'pete's photo is doomed or somehow connected with the Celeste in any way.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
*There is imco another flawed version of the story on YouTube called 'The Marie Celeste Ghost Ship. Good maybe for comparison.
**But a more complete picture fleshed out with timelines and names is to be found on Wikipedia. Where it turns out that Capt. Morehouse of the Dei Gratia was a buddy of Briggs!
How 'bout that? Can't recall any synopsis mentioning THAT.

[commanderpete]

I get some ghostly images when my hands are real shaky

[Rico]

Here is a neat little daysailor:

www.norseboat.com

http://norseboat.com/Swiss_army_knife_of_sailboats%21_files/NorseBoat%2021%20White.jpg

BERTHS 6ft 8in x 6ft (fwd); 6ft x 2ft (aft)

LOA 21ft 8in // LWL 19ft 7in // BEAM 7ft 1in

DRAFT 1ft 6in (board up); 4ft 4in (board down)

DISPLACEMENT 1,280lb (light ship)

BALLAST 275lb //CAPACITY 2,458lb

SAIL AREA 197ft2 (main and jib)
Note the traditional Gaff Rig using not so traditional carbon fiber spars... :)

DESIGNERS Kevin Jeffrey/Mark Fitzgerald

BUILDER NorseBoat Limited, Prince Edward Island, Canada, 902-659-2790, norseboat.com.

PRICE $37,490 (base, including trailer)

Ballast Ratio: 21

Sail Area-Displacement Ratio: 26

Displacement-Length Ratio: 115

Performance: 5 (5 What???)

They seem to be capable little ships:
TWO NORSEBOATS GO THROUGH NW PASSAGE IN 2010!

The two man team of Kev Oliver and Tony Lancashire returned to Gjoa Haven in the Canadian arctic mid August 2010. They completed their expedition through the NW Passage, ending in the settlement of Resolute (see details below). Another NorseBoat 17.5 went through the arctic this season, this one on the deck of an expedition motor yacht that left Lunenburg, Nova Scotia harbour July 2 heading east to west through the NW Passage.


Little video of it under sail:

http://youtu.be/b8cSgyAgcFY

One last pic:

http://sailmagazine.com/boat-reviews/nb.1.jpg

[ebb]

Mast weighs 19lbs!!!

Carbon firber?

Maybe it'll rattle Frank Durant's chain??;)

[Ed Ekers]

here is a link to some great looking yachts to dream about http://www.persept.se/photo/Skerrymania/ ....ed